Live data from Hacker News

America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

foodandwine.com

161–170 of 247 posts

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#161
post #105
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Take the employer out of the equation once they're no longer relevant. Not exactly, if the company is willing to go so far as bankruptcy / reincorporation... how will any previous contracts with whatever insurance company last through that?

The idea is an employee’s pension must be fully funded before they leave and then handled by a 3rd party. At that point the company could dissolve without impacting retired workers.

Yes, that's how 401(k)s work and why most employers have switched to them.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#162

I’m constantly amazed at how cheap milk is in the grocery store. A gallon of Great Value 1% milk is $2.77 now. That seems low for what you are getting (a gallon of protein rich fluid milked from a cow and transported to you). How much profit could be left? I’ve heard that grocery stores sell milk for less than they buy it for just to get you into the store, because they know you will buy other things. I haven’t check…

The Federal government operates a comprehensive system to manage milk prices to consumers and also to subsidize marginal dairy producers. It's also illegal to sell raw milk and other similar products in most states. The milk producers are often not making money from the sale of milk. When milk prices drop below certain levels, the federal government steps in to subsidize dairy farmers. This creates perverse incentives for the dairy farmers to produce more even when the market is signalling that more dairy farms should close and consolidate.

The entire system is currently pretty strange. Even family farms wind up feeding into corporate wholesale conglomerates. So the "small farms" that are non economic wind up supplying the corporations who pasteurize, package, process, and market the milk for retail both as milk and as other finished products. The corporations that can bear the regulatory and other costs wind up profiting from the farmers who are indentured to the government. They may not be literally indentured but it's a good metaphor for the relationship. They get bottom price milk from subsidized producers while keeping the retail profits.

Grocery stores have tons and tons of loss leaders. Anything perishable unless it is premium priced is probably going to lose money. Dealing with low priced perishable, refrigerated, fragile, leaky products is really tough. The profits are in dry goods, drugs, supplements, and prepared foods.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’ve heard that grocery stores sell milk for less than they buy it for just to get you into the store, because they know you will buy other things. I wonder if this is why they always put it in the back of the store? That way you have to walk through a vast array of higher margin things that you might suddenly decide you need on the way to and from picking up a gallon of milk.

Yes. Same deal with Eggs, and why they have all the candy at the registers. And why they rearrange the store occasionally.

OMG that rearranging of the store makes me so angry. Just when I get a system down for getting in, getting what I need to get off my list, and getting out and they throw that monkey wrench in.

That and using stacks of items as road blocks in the aisles to slow me down in front of higher-margin items. They don't need roadblocks with my pokey-shopping neighbors who stand in the middle of the aisle and stare at the two boxes of white-label pasta in each hand, attempting to calculate in their heads which one is the cheapest per noodle (my dad and grandmother being chief offenders here) all the while completely oblivious to my nasty glares because I just want to get past them so I can get to the sauce and move on.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#164
post #35
post #10

The title of the article states that milk producers are "going bankrupt," but then cites the rising costs of raw milk, which seems like a good thing for a milk producer. So I look up the company on wikipedia and Borden Dairy is a processor & distributor, not a producer. Furthermore, "employee pension obligations" being cited as a primary cause of bankruptcy without any more details raises a red flag for me. This arti…

If you can't discharge student loans in bankruptcy, you damn well shouldn't be able to discharge pensions you've promised your employees for decades.

Companies need to pay government insurance on their pension and if they go bankrupt, the insurance pays out a capped amount (~$60K per year) on behalf of the fund.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Tucker Carlson is not news. He's a pundit/commentator who has a talk show. Neither is John Oliver. I'd almost say they're flip sides of the same coin, except Carlson trends WAY right (often right into conspiracy theory land) and Oliver is more center-left.

Oliver is a journalist, though. That's why Snowden granted him an interview first, before anyone else in the world. Sure, he's humorous, but he's not offering his opinions except in the most general terms. He follows facts, not hype.

Oliver's background is in entertainment and comedy. As far as I know, he's never had a traditional journalism job.

Carlson started his career as a journalist, working for right-wing publications.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#166

I’m constantly amazed at how cheap milk is in the grocery store. A gallon of Great Value 1% milk is $2.77 now. That seems low for what you are getting (a gallon of protein rich fluid milked from a cow and transported to you). How much profit could be left? I’ve heard that grocery stores sell milk for less than they buy it for just to get you into the store, because they know you will buy other things. I haven’t check…

dairy farmers have spent well over a century fighting the free market.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#167
post #100
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly why it shouldn't even be on the company's budget. They should pay for it to an insurance company while the employee works there, and once the employee doesn't, the insurance takes care of it. Take the employer out of the equation once they're no longer relevant.

>Take the employer out of the equation once they're no longer relevant. Not exactly, if the company is willing to go so far as bankruptcy / reincorporation... how will any previous contracts with whatever insurance company last through that?

The way it works at least here generally is that the pension fund is held in trust, on a per employee basis, by an insurance company (usually) employed by the company to do that. So it's (in principle) immune to bankruptcy of both the employer and third party insurance company.

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#168
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> " There's lots of evidence milk isn't as good for you as the dairy industry advertises." lol at this ridiculous comment. Present the evidence please. How many millions of years do you think mammals have been drinking milk for?

Their mother's milk, during infancy. No mammals other than humans drink milk after infancy, and humans have only been doing that for a few thousand years. I'm sure there's links to evidence I can find but I'm not going to waste my time as it's common sense.

If its healthy during infancy why would it be unhealthy during adulthood?

Re: America's Biggest Milk Producers Are Going Bankrupt

#170
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's lots of evidence milk isn't as good for you as the dairy industry advertises.

> " There's lots of evidence milk isn't as good for you as the dairy industry advertises." lol at this ridiculous comment. Present the evidence please. How many millions of years do you think mammals have been drinking milk for?

_Adult_ mammals drinking the milk of other species is a _very_ new invention; lots of humans don't even do it.
Post reply on HN