Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#81

Post by verall » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:06 PM UTC

akvadrako wrote: post #63

kstenerud wrote: post #55

"There needs to be display options well above FHD/1080p." With a 13 inch screen, 1920x1080 is at the pixel density (150) where someone with 20/20 vision won't notice pixellation from a distance of 24 inches. Even with a 15 inch display (density = 128) you're still pretty damn close. Realistically, it would make no difference in usability to go beyond 2560xwhatever in resolution on a laptop, and even that's already ge…

I use my 13" laptop screen at a comfortable distance of 15 in (40cm). 2K is definitionally not enough - text is either jagged or blurry. 4K is the next logical step because you can use 2x scaling. Using scaling ("magnification") doesn't defeat the purpose. The purpose is to have clear text.

Unclear text is really a hinting+rendering problem but it's so often bad (cough cough Windows..) I'm also a fan of just throwing hardware at the problem. I quite like the ~3K display on my xps 13, although the occasional program (say, written in tcl or Java by a professor for a specific course) will not scale, which is "fun".

Separately though, where have all the high-dpi matte displays gone? Why's it impossible to get a 4K matte touchscreen in any laptop? I don't want to see my face in the screen while I'm trying to read something.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#82

Post by mcv » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

Aozi wrote: post #77

deaps wrote: post #70

Reading through the comments proves different strokes for different folks. It took me quite a while to find a laptop I'm completely happy with. I ended up with a (late-2019) Razer Blade Stealth (with gtx1650). I do run the internal screen at 1080p (at 100%) and I couldn't imagine running it at 4k. My older 13" macbook has higher resolution, but you end up having to scale it anyway (In reality, I think it's actually d…

I really don't understand why there are so few QHD screens on laptops. It's always either a 1080p or 4k, while a good QHD screen would still give higher resolution while not completely murdering my battery.

Yeah, I've got a 4K Thinkpad, and the screen is gorgeous, but it's way overkill. QHD would have been good enough, but it was 4K or 1080p, and I do want a bit more than that.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#83

Post by modo_mario » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:09 PM UTC

modo_mario wrote: post #38

intsunny wrote: post #13

I'm convinced there is a conspiracy that prevents laptop manufacturers from shipping AMD chips on 13" high end laptops. Almost every (every?) AMD laptop I find is some 14-15" clunker with a garbage screen. I've had to put off buying a new macbook because of the shitty keyboard situation and all laptops (mac/pc) because it appears Intel's newest CPUs are still vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre. A highend 13" AMD based Li…

I'm using a 13" hp envy x360 like that. It's really good for the price although would have fanspin issues until after some bios issues. Also yeah Intel has probably tried to bribe laptop manufacturers to not provide an AMD option as another comment showed.

late edit: Instead of "would have fanspin issues until after some bios issues." I meant "would have fanspin issues until after some bios updates."

After installing those it became properly functional and a great laptop thought it made me wonder how they managed to ship with such a big, obvious and easily resolvable issue in the device.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#84

Post by baybal2 » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:11 PM UTC

I will be not so easy.

Big OEMs are bound by the supply chain. Small OEMs are dependent on solution providers.

Intel pays to solution providers to not to work with AMD in China. That's pretty much on the record, and not a secret to anybody in the industry.

And for big OEMs, the supply chain trumps everything. Idling assembly lines are extremely costly for them. One week idle can easily wipe out 1+ month of profits for them.

Before AMD is ready to offer the whole BOM kits with inventory in mainland China, and is ready to put money behind the availability guarantee, there will be no mass transition.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#85

Post by gertrunde » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:15 PM UTC

Quite a few of these complaints are equally applicable to intel-based laptops as well, particularly regarding ports/quantity of ports, and thermals/cooling. A single thunderbolt / type-c port is nice and everything, but since there's only a single one, that means I can only really plug a dock/hub type device in it, or else I'm having to give up something else I need - that goes double if the vendor supplies it with a type-c power adapter as well.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#86

Post by mcv » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:16 PM UTC

rememberdeath wrote: post #62

kstenerud wrote: post #55

"There needs to be display options well above FHD/1080p." With a 13 inch screen, 1920x1080 is at the pixel density (150) where someone with 20/20 vision won't notice pixellation from a distance of 24 inches. Even with a 15 inch display (density = 128) you're still pretty damn close. Realistically, it would make no difference in usability to go beyond 2560xwhatever in resolution on a laptop, and even that's already ge…

I currently have a 4k 15.6 inch laptop, it is very easy to differentiate it from a 1080p one.

I certainly notice the difference between my 4K OLED 15.6" Thinkpad X1E and my old 1080p 17" MBP. The smoothness is unbelievable.

No idea whether that's the 4K or that OLED contributes too. I certainly think QHD should have been enough, but that was not an option, weirdly. Having to choose between 1080p and 4K is absurd. Give us some options in between!

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#87

Post by pjc50 » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

IgorPartola wrote: post #71

deaps wrote: post #70

Reading through the comments proves different strokes for different folks. It took me quite a while to find a laptop I'm completely happy with. I ended up with a (late-2019) Razer Blade Stealth (with gtx1650). I do run the internal screen at 1080p (at 100%) and I couldn't imagine running it at 4k. My older 13" macbook has higher resolution, but you end up having to scale it anyway (In reality, I think it's actually d…

TIL that in 2019 people still have DPI problems with their software.

Only Macs have really made high-DPI work properly, and especially having multiple monitors with very different DPI.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#88

Post by libertine » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:23 PM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #42

Good timing! ASUS are showing off a pile of their ROG-branded gaming laptops at CES, which have 7nm, 8 core, 16T Ryzen 4000-line CPUs with RTX2060 (mobile) graphics cards, with fast screens, all in a 14" form factor. Certainly not workstations but still, considerably more powerful More at LTT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGUESEq75ZI

Came here to post this, ASUS went from 8 to 80 on AMD.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#89

Post by basilgohar » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #80

DCKing wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no conspiracy. Hardware builders just have other requirements. If AMD"s laptop chips were really better so far (this is actually very debatable), they were by a slim margin for some use cases. Not enough to offset existing business agreements with Intel, the more mature Intel laptop platform (it's more than a CPU, but also motherboards and wireless chipsets) and Intel's more mature - and already existi…

Users don't want to switch, either. I won't take a chance on an AMD machine to save a couple of dollars. Maybe I'm being rational, maybe I'm not, but I'm sure I'm not the only consumer who feels this way. I want to buy the "happy path" when I'm getting a product.

What's the chance your taking? Intel has dropped the ball in many ways, both long and short term, from their handling of Spectre/Meltdown, to pricing, to technology rollouts, and more. AMD has been a reliable player in the CPU hardware space for decades.

So, please explain what risks you are taking on by choosing a device that satisfies your needs but has an AMD CPU inside instead of something else.

Re: Laptop OEMs – make a proper high-end AMD laptop

#90

Post by basilgohar » Tue, Jan 07, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

Illniyar wrote: post #48

"For as long as I can remember, AMD-powered laptops’ potential have been intentionally shortchanged by OEMs for any number of reasons – perceived lower value, kickbacks from Intel, or sometimes legitimate performance limitations." Seems to be a reason missing from that least - very-low demand. There are clunky low-end intel laptops just as much as there are AMD laptop ones. If enough people show they are willing to b…

This is patently untrue, as I also called out in the article. Voting with your wallet is not possible if the option to buy what you want is not even presented. Moreover, the self-fulfilling cycle of offering sub-par AMD systems and then people not wanting those, and then the OEMs say, "see, we offering (lousy) AMD systems and no one got them".

The problem is there are very few DESIRABLE AMD offerings, and moreover, the vast majority of people don't even care what's inside, they are looking at price.

This is all before even mentioning that AMD systems, even when performant, have been positioned as value or low-end systems, just to differentiate between them and the Intel offerings.

It's also already heavily covered elsewhere in the thread, but Intel has been furiously and notoriously working to undermine AMD with backdoor deals to keep them from a greater marketshare.