If tractors with closed software are such a problem, why doesn't a company build old-school tractors? Heck, you could use a 1980 design, currently selling second-hand for $40-60k, based on expired patents.
For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
91–100 of 511 posts
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#92There is probably a sizable market for building out software and technology for 'upgrading' older farm equipment to modern principals, such as self driving, variable rate fertilization, variable rate planting, etc. When I was more involved in ag research I met several farmers who DIY built themselves variable rate fertilization drills. While its not ubiquitous, the farming community has a very long culture of DIY out…
I've heard of farmers going so far as to make their own GPS guidance systems, enhanced before they were widely available and reasonably priced. I'm not sure how accurate and repeatable they were. Going to any farm that's been around for 20+ years, you'd see so many custom solutions that are really functional. Farmer one-off solutions are kind of like homebrew Excel applications - they're infinitely customizable, the…
Does civilian GPS have enough resolution to be useful in a tractor guidance system?
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#93“ They cost a fraction of the price, and then the operating costs are much less because they’re so much easier to fix,” he said.” It’s not really so much a technology problem as the ability to repair, probably by the farmers themselves. Companies don’t make it easy. You need special equipment, tools, etc. We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc
> We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc The advantage older equipment has is that a generalist can repair it because the equipment is fairly simple and well understood. Parts on older equipment are easier to source or sometimes can be fabricated by the farmer themselves. Newer equipment has tighter tolerances and components are more difficult to fabricate or repair. Computerized components require…
Specifically though on tractors we're seeing companies essentially DRMing replacement parts. Farmers etc can easily find and install parts but then the computer controller will not recognize the replacement or won't reset from the error condition.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#94The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…
> The technology itself is not the issue...
In a way, it is. There's no argument today's machines (including even consumer cars) are more technologically complicated than those of 40 years ago. There's more stuff (read features) that can break, and there's more microcontrollers and embedded computers that run software (read bugs) with sometimes intricate behavior.
Those 40-year old tractors are easier to maintain because everything is mechanical, so it's easier to diagnose and easier to fix.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#95The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…
Big AGG works the same way as any other industry: make enough money to grind your competition into the dust. If that means yanking features from a product so that you can sell it at multiple price points or if it means adding self destruct mechanizes that only you can fix then so be it. Obviously, not all entities work this way (bless their hearts) but I think it's fair to say most of the successful ones do.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. It clearly is good for business, even if it's bad for customers and society at large. Pretending it's bad for business just encourages complacency because it suggests that the natural discipline of the market will drive the milkers out of business and encourage good business practices. But that doesn't happen, and if we w…
These companies are losing customers. That is never good for business. Eventually, someone will take the matter into his own hand and start making 80s-like tractors, so these companies will lose even more customers. They could do the same, but at this point they lost the trust of their customers, so it will be very hard to gain them back.
Really? Which products are getting more repairable with time? Nobody is bringing back easily repairable washing machines or easily repairable automobiles.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?
If you don't know the answer to that - you may have wanted to think it through a little more. Manufacturing at scale is hard and expensive. John Deere has been doing it for years, creating the most reliable tractors in the world for decades and has only recently decided to bend customers over to give them the ol' in-out-in-out. A new brand would need to start from almost smaller than scratch, and have tens of million…
Is that really a problem in the country of the Silicon Valley? Actually, that might be the only thing preventing this from happening.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#98My grandfather, rest his soul, was a 3rd generation rancher and farmer. He bought 2 John Deere tractors in the '80s and used them for 35 years. They are still being used to this day on the ranch.
Growing up, I visited the ranch regularly. Farming and ranching is very hard on equipment so the tractors often needed repair. My father and grandfather could seemingly fix anything on the tractor without even needing to go to the parts store. (The closest one was a 1 hour drive). Without this capability my family never would have been able to make a living of any kind with their land.
In 2020 farmland is being gobbled up by corporations. The family farmer is going extinct. That means tractor companies are getting a whole new customer who is nothing like the previous. Corporations want tractors as a service, they want them to be self-driving, and they want to manage them in bulk. They don't really care if they can repair them because they pay someone else to do it.
Personally, it is sad to see this change since so much of my family history and memories are tied up in the way things used to be. I sometimes feel out of place in my family because I couldn't fix a single thing on a tractor. On the other hand my grandfather didn't touch a computer in his entire life.
The world changes and sometimes it sucks but that is how progress is made.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet, farmers will keep voting against their interests and vote for a Republican who is being lobbied by these same companies taking away their right-to-repair.
Farmers have complex interests. Right to repair is not the only issue they will be voting on.
No there's also how tarrifs affect export markets, among a few others, but that one hits pretty close to home for a lot of the really big ag operators.
Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?
If you don't know the answer to that - you may have wanted to think it through a little more. Manufacturing at scale is hard and expensive. John Deere has been doing it for years, creating the most reliable tractors in the world for decades and has only recently decided to bend customers over to give them the ol' in-out-in-out. A new brand would need to start from almost smaller than scratch, and have tens of million…
John Deere has not been making the 'most reliable tractors in the world for decades'. Their products are categorically inferior to Japanese products like those made by Kubota, and frankly I'd trust a Mahindra to go the distance before a Deere.
I think Deere was supported by blind patriotism on small/medium farms and really good post-sale support for large operations. I'm pretty sure their unit sales are falling, hardly a sign of a company that's getting its product right.