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For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

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Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#71

Post by scarmig »

brenden2 wrote: post #16

The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…

> Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency.

It clearly is good for business, even if it's bad for customers and society at large. Pretending it's bad for business just encourages complacency because it suggests that the natural discipline of the market will drive the milkers out of business and encourage good business practices. But that doesn't happen, and if we want that to change there needs to be some source of external regulations to prevent it from happening.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#72

Post by jotm »

xnyan wrote: post #42
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

http://www.belarus-tractor.com/en/

I think parts availability might be a problem with those, as well as a general lack of knowledge about them. Otherwise, yeah MTZs are simple and easy to fix.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#73

Post by milofeynman »

brenden2 wrote: post #16

The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…

To add some sources to this, the tractor companies have been milking farmers by forcing them to require subscriptions or use overpriced repair techs in order to get firmware updates/repairs.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kzp7ny/tractor-hacking-ri...

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2017/04/09/52...

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#74

Post by dejv »

dsalzman wrote: post #58

Opportunity for a company like $TESLA or other startup to provide additional competition in the farm equipment space. It's a duopoly between John Deere (Green) and Case IH (Red). A modular electric system would work well since the required speeds are low and torque is important. Extra points for a small wind turbine based charging station that can mount to a barn.

There is Solectrac electric tractor which seems like something that fits your description. It is definitely in very early stage, but I can't wait to see this type of vehicles to take off.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#75

Post by [deleted] »

CharlesColeman wrote: post #54
sneak wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

> If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors? Because modern capitalism is not a system that will magically fulfill customer needs, despite propaganda to the contrary. The way the system actually works is that the wants/needs of the capital-holders take priority over the wants/needs of other stakeholders (e.g. customers and workers). The other stakeholders are of…

[deleted]

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#76

Post by burlesona »

scarmig wrote: post #71
brenden2 wrote: post #16

The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…

> Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. It clearly is good for business, even if it's bad for customers and society at large. Pretending it's bad for business just encourages complacency because it suggests that the natural discipline of the market will drive the milkers out of business and encourage good business practices. But that doesn't happen, and if we w…

Or competition, or the farmers pushing back as they are. Regulation is only one of many tools for policing businesses.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#77

Post by hinkley »

I belonged to a club up until last year where probably half of the members were currently or formerly professional landscapers or related careers.

The number of them who were not into computers was quite high. I want to say it's 'surprising' but that statement doesn't even survive a giggle test. Not everyone is enamored of IT the way we are, and some have perfectly good reasons for that. Not every step we take is a step forward.

I kinda think that the only reason we don't hear more complaints is that people are preoccupied with other professions that don't quite deliver on their promises, especially the medical profession. If Western Medicine somehow got sorted out tomorrow, I would not be surprised if by next week many of those pitchforks were pointed at us.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#78

Post by jotm »

markvdb wrote: post #70

The Karhkiv tractor plant models from the USSR are one step easier still to maintain, and hence very popular outside the west: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kharkiv_Tractor_Plant The XTZ 150K: http://xtz.ua/en/kolisni-tractory/xtz-150k-09-172.html

MTZ, too.

I drive past a John Deere dealership/showroom, and a New Holland one and wonder who is even buying those in Eastern Europe. Doesn't seem like a good investment.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#79

Post by floren »

sneak wrote: post #20
brenden2 wrote: post #16

The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?

Mahindra is selling small and medium tractors in the US now; I don't know for sure but I wouldn't be surprised if they were much more user-serviceable than the American brands people are complaining about.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#80

Post by Yizahi »

skywhopper wrote: post #65
wvenable wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why was this downvoted? I just made the same comment before noticing this one already done. Competition is what solves these kind of things.

Sure, but how do you propose to introduce competition into this market?

It will trickle down of course. /s
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