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For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

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11–20 of 511 posts

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#11
post #6

“ They cost a fraction of the price, and then the operating costs are much less because they’re so much easier to fix,” he said.” It’s not really so much a technology problem as the ability to repair, probably by the farmers themselves. Companies don’t make it easy. You need special equipment, tools, etc. We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc

Vote with your wallet.

Vote with your vote. As far as I know only two candidates in the presidential primary race support right-to-repair: Sanders and Warren.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#12

There is probably a sizable market for building out software and technology for 'upgrading' older farm equipment to modern principals, such as self driving, variable rate fertilization, variable rate planting, etc. When I was more involved in ag research I met several farmers who DIY built themselves variable rate fertilization drills. While its not ubiquitous, the farming community has a very long culture of DIY out…

Everything that you mention except the self-steering is a function of the attached implement, not the tractor. That makes incremental upgrades of that sort much easier.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#13
post #6

“ They cost a fraction of the price, and then the operating costs are much less because they’re so much easier to fix,” he said.” It’s not really so much a technology problem as the ability to repair, probably by the farmers themselves. Companies don’t make it easy. You need special equipment, tools, etc. We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc

All good ideas, but repairing surface mount / integrated / dust and vibration glued parts is not as easy EVEN IF they were open standards as a 40 year old tractor is to repair. I spent way to long repairing an old gas engine, it was super simple in terms of operating approach. Opening the hood on my new car - the fixes are not as obvious.

I can't help but think that this is intentional. I'm pretty sure it's possible to create a more modular design without sacrificing anything. Especially given John Deere's record, it doesn't seem far fetched that they would actively seek out ways to make it more difficult to repair their tractors.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#14
post #6

“ They cost a fraction of the price, and then the operating costs are much less because they’re so much easier to fix,” he said.” It’s not really so much a technology problem as the ability to repair, probably by the farmers themselves. Companies don’t make it easy. You need special equipment, tools, etc. We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc

huge discussion here about Nebraska voting for right-to-repair a few weeks ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21805633

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#15
post #6

“ They cost a fraction of the price, and then the operating costs are much less because they’re so much easier to fix,” he said.” It’s not really so much a technology problem as the ability to repair, probably by the farmers themselves. Companies don’t make it easy. You need special equipment, tools, etc. We could insist on a right to repair, open standards, etc

All good ideas, but repairing surface mount / integrated / dust and vibration glued parts is not as easy EVEN IF they were open standards as a 40 year old tractor is to repair. I spent way to long repairing an old gas engine, it was super simple in terms of operating approach. Opening the hood on my new car - the fixes are not as obvious.

I couldn’t even swap out a headlight in my girlfriend’s car, because of the tight space.

Instead she has to pay a garage to do it. That’s not it used to be.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#16
The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency.

I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help customers be more successful (although many of them preach this, very few actually do). Many businesses these days seem to be geared toward making a quick buck, rather than really providing any value.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#17
post #2

Flash player update scam. I'm outta there.

I’m on my phone and site won’t load... but I do know there’s some attack where ads served by a ad network can redirect a page... A popular blog about Apple news and rumors did that once for me, emailed their ad sales guy but never heard anything back. But all probably random, so the others who didn’t get that didn’t get the ad. Probably some sort of frame breaker.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#18
This is one of the single best examples of the ludicrous nature of the recent pattern of loss of right-to-repair with regards to software and hardware control.

John Deere is literally bottom-barrel scum of, well, I guess, now - the tech industry - and it's their own fault that farmers are turning to purchasing older models.

'“There’s an affinity factor if you grew up around these tractors, but it goes way beyond that,” Peterson said. “These things, they’re basically bulletproof. You can put 15,000 hours on it and if something breaks you can just replace it. It's not even just the price difference - the newer machines, any time something breaks, you’ve got to have a computer to fix it.”'

The article then goes on to mention they're SOL, with the tractor stuck in the field for potentially days while they wait for a technician to come and charge $150/hr to fix it.

First off, farmers are not, for the most part, computer or software technicians. While there are certainly exceptions (I was only a farmer for 4-5 years of my life, total, I don't think I count), I've spent years on and off living on farms, and a lot of farmers in the rural US and Canada are lucky to even just have access to Satellite internet. I imagine doing a case study of farmers who would have an identical tractor with and without the software, and seeing how many would actually even use or miss it. I'm guessing not a lot.

The idea of relying on software technology is profoundly alien - and high-risk - to even just the culture of most farmers. To then put arbitrary restrictions on repair is far more than enough reason to ignore the newer products, especially with the familiarity and known reliability of older models.

It's a 2011 vs. 2017 MacBook Pro kinda deal - pretty much the same insides, but with out the ability for the user to go in and upgrade the RAM or the SSD to add any value afterwards, and the removal of familiar and useful ports. And if one part breaks, you're screwed and stuck travelling to an Apple store, if you're fortunate enough to have one in your area.

Right to Repair is one of the most critical things we as tech users need to be defending in the upcoming years. I've been buying Apple computers exclusively for 15+ years, and I will be buying a Lenovo next, as Apple has taken away my right to repair and upgrade the device myself, while simultaneously removing features, and raising the price.

If I was still a farmer, you wouldn't catch me dead buying a new John Deere - I could never bring myself to support such obvious greed and stranglehold control.

At least with a Tesla, you'd get the benefit of it being an EV. Maybe that's a fair enough trade to lose your RtR.

But with John Deere and Apple, by buying a new product of theirs, you are literally removing the rights and abilities you had several years ago. That is just pure greed - and we need to vote with our money.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vote with your wallet.

Vote with your vote. As far as I know only two candidates in the presidential primary race support right-to-repair: Sanders and Warren.

Yet, farmers will keep voting against their interests and vote for a Republican who is being lobbied by these same companies taking away their right-to-repair.

Re: For tech-weary Midwest farmers, 40-year-old tractors now a hot commodity

#20

The technology itself is not the issue, the problem is that companies are at war with their customers. These companies will go to any length to extract as much revenue as possible. Milking your customers is not good for business, especially if you drive them into insolvency. I hope in the future there are more companies that try to align incentives with their customers, such that their business practices help custome…

If customers don’t want this stuff, why isn’t there a competing company offering non-DRM tractors?
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