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‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

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Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#11

Really that highlights another trend I noticed with rivalry and paradigms and "being on the attack". If they have to bill themselves as the foo-Killer they aren't and will almost certainly fail as they don't establish their own niche even, let alone a good reason to choose them. I wonder why it is failing /that/ hard though. Failure to deliver value for their money? SUV + Electric not a good fit for the local market?

320Km of range doesn't sound like much especially from a big car that you'd conceivably take on longer trips. And in a not so small country this thing is good for 2h on the Autobahn, assuming that driving at 130-140Km/h yields lower than ideal range.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#12
I cannot imagine the product teams that designed the Audi e-tron or the Mercedes EQC having sat down and said, "Let's build a car to compete with Tesla." What they created did not attempt to meet Tesla's strengths.

Tesla understands that the thing that new EV owners really want is to feel secure (read: range and chargers so they're not stranded) and to have their newfangled electric cars feel "futuristic" (read: spartan interior, big touchscreen, autopilot, OTA software updates).

Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes, et. al think that new EV owners want the same driving experience they had in their gas cars, only with an electric drivetrain. So they made their cars heavier in their pursuit of making the cars quiet, which they accomplished quite well. They preserved much of the body styling at the expense of drag because they assumed customers would want that brand identity. They targeted the "non power users," in that they held back a significant chunk of the battery from the consumer (~20% for the e-tron) so that consumers in hot climates couldn't wreck the battery by habitually charging all the way to 100% and letting the pack sit like that, which destroys lithium ion battery chemistry.

Tesla on the other hand spent their complexity budget for the Model 3 on extracting as much range as possible with as little expense as they could. As a result, the car is significantly lighter, and anyone who owns a Model 3 can attest to the fact that there's a lot of road noise. This is immediately solvable with heavier materials, but Tesla understands that the first batch of Model 3 owners strongly prefer the range over the creature comfort. And that the first batch of Model 3 owners are less likely to wreck their battery packs by habitually letting them sit overcharged for long periods of time. So they can expose the full battery packs to the consumer and get that 20% range boost over competitors who hold that back from the consumer.

2020/2021 is starting to get interesting with the Ford Mach E, the Volvo Polestar 2, the LEAF Plus, the second-year Hyundai Kona Electric and Kia Niro Electric, and the updated Bolt, together with the very rapidly expanding Electrify America rapid charging network. Tesla will continue to optimize for range and will likely keep a "stats lead" on the competition, but as range anxiety starts to be alleviated the second generation of EV converts may shift their demands away from range and toward other characteristics of the vehicle such as the interior and road noise isolation. It will be interesting to see where that goes.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#13
post #2

Electricity is very expensive in Germany, driving electric can actually be more expensive than gasoline cars.

0.30 euro / kwh * 80 kwh = 24 euros to drive 220 miles 220 mi / 16 mpg for GLS 550 (similar size?) = 13 gallons * 5.25 euro/gallon = 72 euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQC https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/40761.shtml https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices

I mean, that's not really a fair comparison. EQC is more like the GLC, perhaps GLE at a stretch, and in Germany you'd usually get it with a 220d diesel, those get 40-50mpg easily.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#14

I cannot imagine the product teams that designed the Audi e-tron or the Mercedes EQC having sat down and said, "Let's build a car to compete with Tesla." What they created did not attempt to meet Tesla's strengths. Tesla understands that the thing that new EV owners really want is to feel secure (read: range and chargers so they're not stranded) and to have their newfangled electric cars feel "futuristic" (read: spar…

I want to take a ride in a Model 3 just because of the reported road noise. I bet it's half as loud as my Mini Cooper S. Whenever I get into another car it seems like it's completely dead in comparison.

Also I wonder if road noise could be combated by active noise canceling.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#15

I cannot imagine the product teams that designed the Audi e-tron or the Mercedes EQC having sat down and said, "Let's build a car to compete with Tesla." What they created did not attempt to meet Tesla's strengths. Tesla understands that the thing that new EV owners really want is to feel secure (read: range and chargers so they're not stranded) and to have their newfangled electric cars feel "futuristic" (read: spar…

As an owner of a Tesla 3, if they would only put some effort into sound deadening they would be able to silence many of their critics. Now I put this car just below a pre 2010 Accord I used to deal with but let me be honest, an EV should emphasize its silent drive by trying to keep the drive as quiet as possible. Compared to my 2017 Volt, it is louder on bad roads; roads with obvious surface degradation and even tar snakes; but quieter than my 2012 Z4 but that is on par with other 3 and 4 series.

as for the EV market in general. I don't think Mercedes, Audi, and maybe even VW; parent of Audi, as whole take the whole range number seriously. To them they are being forced into an platform that they do not want and never would have gotten to. It is very much likely no governments would have ever pushed BEV adoption if Tesla had not come along. We would have forever been stuck in the sub 100 mile range cars with some incremental range improvements to convince us they were improving year after year.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#16

I cannot imagine the product teams that designed the Audi e-tron or the Mercedes EQC having sat down and said, "Let's build a car to compete with Tesla." What they created did not attempt to meet Tesla's strengths. Tesla understands that the thing that new EV owners really want is to feel secure (read: range and chargers so they're not stranded) and to have their newfangled electric cars feel "futuristic" (read: spar…

I want to take a ride in a Model 3 just because of the reported road noise. I bet it's half as loud as my Mini Cooper S. Whenever I get into another car it seems like it's completely dead in comparison. Also I wonder if road noise could be combated by active noise canceling.

If you're going from maybe a high-mileage high-volume hybrid, or other gas efficient compact to a Model 3, the driver is going to think the Model 3 is quieter. If you're going from a conventional Mercedes/BMW to a Model 3, you'll think the Model 3 is louder and a rougher ride.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#17
Because it's a worse car.

The absolute minimum bar to hit for a car that's even roughly the same price (say within 30% or so) is the range of the equivalent Tesla.

Bear in mind also, that this car would not give you access to Tesla superchargers. I'm currently on a road trip across Europe and if I had to use only the standard chargers it would have been far more logistically challenging.

So to make up for that it should have significantly _more_ range than a Tesla, because otherwise it's an inferior product in practice.

That isn't happening, and everything they make without that problem solved is literally a waste of energy. A little Nissan Micra type car can have a 100 mile range and that's fine, it's a city car.

A big sedan should be able to drive anywhere - if it can't, it's basically a stocking filler, it's going to be scrapped in 5-10 years.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#18
post #7

Strangely absent from the blog post, or the article on which it is based, is the price of the vehicle. It mentions "numerous Tesla Model 3s", but I suspect that this thing costs more than a Model X. The other factor, of course, is infrastructure. What is the availability of Mercedes-compatible chargers, compared to Tesla? Edit: I stand corrected on the price. I don't know about Germany, but pathartl's quoted US price…

This blog is a Tesla mouthpiece. I'm surprised their articles get voted-up. It's embarrassing.

Is the goal to be green, or is it to root for Silicon Valley?

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0.30 euro / kwh * 80 kwh = 24 euros to drive 220 miles 220 mi / 16 mpg for GLS 550 (similar size?) = 13 gallons * 5.25 euro/gallon = 72 euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_EQC https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/40761.shtml https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/Germany/gasoline_prices

I mean, that's not really a fair comparison. EQC is more like the GLC, perhaps GLE at a stretch, and in Germany you'd usually get it with a 220d diesel, those get 40-50mpg easily.

Indeed. Which is enough to put electricity at par or even more expensive than ICE vehicles.

Germany is also densely populated, which means many can't charge at home and might need to pay a higher rate for electricity somewhere else.

Re: ‘Tesla killer’ Mercedes EQC flops with 55 units sold in Germany

#20

I cannot imagine the product teams that designed the Audi e-tron or the Mercedes EQC having sat down and said, "Let's build a car to compete with Tesla." What they created did not attempt to meet Tesla's strengths. Tesla understands that the thing that new EV owners really want is to feel secure (read: range and chargers so they're not stranded) and to have their newfangled electric cars feel "futuristic" (read: spar…

>Tesla understands that the thing that new EV owners really want is to feel secure (read: range and chargers so they're not stranded)

Do you have any evidence for this? It's a fact that most people drive fewer than 50 miles per day, and most can charge at home. I'd also bet that most EV owners have a second vehicle which has an ICE.

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