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Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

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Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#331
Interesting jobs are, kind of by definition, hard at the beginning: Many interesting and clever things are already in place that you have to learn in a short period of time: not just the big technologies, but a lot of smaller things like tools, environments and a lot of culture.

Inevitably you run out of cool things to learn, and very few jobs can keep challenging you mentally all the time. Almost by definition a job must get more boring over time.

You can do some learning and growing on your own, but that only goes so far: You can write a script and look up stuff and apply it at your job, but can't quite break out a sample project in the new framework.

Almost by definition, the person who can handle coming in at that kind of job and grok it all, can't be the one who does the job for years on end. Enjoy the ebb and flow of the job lifecycle - after a hectic start, settle in and enjoy it for a while.

But then: leave! If the company is smart, they'll put you on a new challenge if you ask. Most likely you'll have to quit and apply somewhere else. Then you will be on 100% of your mental capacity again in no time :)

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#332
There s enough cynicism in this topic for the whole year. No matter how you spin it, slacking and wasting your talent is neither healthy nor good. Sure, it's hard to admit it when your salary depends on it, but it seems the megacorp's tactic of outpaying everyone is working, because they don't seem to be facing any new competitors anymore. they got a big golden cage

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#333
Wow, this sounds eerily similar to my situation, though I was only there about 3 years.

I left to join an AV startup and it's amazing how much more I've learned and accomplished in a few months versus the time at Google. Things at Google move slowly, and the amount of work per person is relatively limited. Also, all the complicated infrastructure or codebase decisions were already made for you, or is being handled by someone L+2 at least and outside of your purview.

Edmond Lau's The Effective Engineer talks about this, except to the extreme that he wanted to do and learn everything at Google, and even then he left after ~2 years after he felt his growth was slowing.

I think for many, being at Google for a few years will give you invaluable experience, but then severely diminishing returns on growth and practical experience unless you're one of the lucky ones who gets promo'd every year or two.

For your actual question, though: >Now that I'm thinking of jumping ship to other interesting companies, I'm having serious doubts that I really learned what I should have learned during all those years.

Having Google on your resume always helps get people interested. Having experience working on big teams with big codebases is also something not everyone in this industry has, and there's value to it, even if you'll initially scratch your head at how to build without Blaze.

>Especially since I'm considering companies with a higher hiring bar than Google.

Curious why you're confident in that statement. I've found that Google has a much higher hiring bar to the actual required skill -- they basically seem to hire as though everyone will work on GWS, when in reality many are just copy-pasting CSS and BUILD rules from another project.

On the flip side, many more interesting companies have lower hiring bars relative to the job requirement. It's harder to hire good talent when you're not FAANG with a pipeline right out of the Ivy League.

>How can I keep myself accountable while I'm still at the company to deeply learn the FE/BE technologies to be better prepared for other companies? Should I start by preparing a checklist of technologies and dive into each of them for a month and continue from there?

Well, I would focus LeetCode, tbqh. That's still the standard. But whatever you want to do, focus in on technologies used in that industry/job role. Do some side projects. Maybe take some online classes. I think you'll find the practical experience requirement to be lower than you think. People can generally learn the right technologies, and companies know this. It won't be a big deal unless you're a frontend-only SWE who suddenly wants a ML role or something.

Lastly -- feel free to DM me, I use this handle on twitter and gmail, happy to help, especially if you're curious about where I ended up.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#334

You may think you are ripping off your employer, but in fact it is the other way around in my opinion. This company has so much money, that their strategy now is to hire all the engineers in the world on retainer (that's you) so the hiring pool for the competition is diminished. That will raise the amount a smaller company (potential competition) has to pay (and ultimately make them unhirable). Maybe you should go fi…

Sometimes I wonder if Google and other tech firms don't hire a bunch of smart people just so other companies / potential competitors won't have access to them.

I couldn't stand having to go to an office every day just to be bored. I have to keep my mind pretty occupied.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blows my mind that in the US one can make such insane money in tech while still being a slacker and retire early with a dream house bought and paid for while in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year, no stock options, without any hope of early retirement or owning a decent home without a 30 year loan or financial…

Well, if you look at the cost of living in SV the salaries aren't that insane. Buying a house is challenging on a Google salary in that area depending on level. If you get in right out of college and live meagerly, than yes, you might be able to retire early if you leave that area. If you actually want to build a life in the Bay Area and buy property, you will probably have to work at least 20 years to have enough fo…

I wish Toronto, Canada would pay such salaries.. Our COL is just as high, yet the median salary range for SWE is ~80k. Buying a house in TO proper is ~1.5M at the moment..

Honestly, folks in SV don't realize how good they have it.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#336
I'm currently an engineering manager at Google (in the US, though not in the Bay Area), and I'm sympathetic to everything you've written here; I've done my time in Larry and Sergei's Protobuf Moving Company. Being in my 40's (fairly old for tech!), if I were in your position, I'd try to find my Sustaining Passion outside of my day-to-day work. That might mean picking a 20% project that excites you, or it might mean finding something meaningful outside of the company that doesn't require a new job. It might also mean finding a new team within Google, or even a new role (e.g., move to SRE, TSE, DPE, etc). With one promotion in 6 years, I'm assuming you're hitting CME/EE every cycle -- which is good -- so I'd position that as a good thing: for many roles, consistency and stability are a feature.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#338
post #130

You remind me myself a few years ago: a talented, but bored slacker who didn't see any point in investing any energy into that project. Turns out I was right: the project didn't go anywhere after I left and investing any extra time would be a clueless thing to do. So what's changed since then? Have I found meaning in work? No! I've become a professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks, knows what bod…

This blows my mind that in the US one can make such insane money in tech while still being a slacker and retire early with a dream house bought and paid for while in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year, no stock options, without any hope of early retirement or owning a decent home without a 30 year loan or financial…

> in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year

There is so much wrong in this sentence.

First, there is no more “meat grinders” in the US than in Europe. I worked at Microsoft and Criteo in Europe, and the slacking there seems to be on par with what OP describes.

You mention 40/80k per year being pitiful? This kind of remuneration puts you in the top 10%/5% of France population easily. If your partner manages the same level of salary, you should be even better in the top.

> no stock options, without any hope of early retirement

You are dreaming. The kind of stock options you get in big tech companies is not what you think. You can expect some hundreds/thousands dollars per year, that need 3/5 year to vest until you can have them in full. European companies would traditionally prefer to give a bit of extra money rather than stock options.

> early retirement

....

> owning a decent home without a 30 year loan

What are you talking about... you earn 40/80k per year. The mortgage rates in France at the moment are amongst the best in the world. You should be able to get a loan at 1% for ~500k for 15 or 30 years without any problem.

Also, please, bear in mind that you cannot directly compare US and EU salaries. Your 80k€ gross in e.g. France should be the equivalent of $150k for a US worker; if you account for the same level of medical care and retirement savings. Not much of a difference after you realise this.

Re: Ask HN: I've been slacking off at Google for 6 years. How can I stop this?

#340
post #130

You remind me myself a few years ago: a talented, but bored slacker who didn't see any point in investing any energy into that project. Turns out I was right: the project didn't go anywhere after I left and investing any extra time would be a clueless thing to do. So what's changed since then? Have I found meaning in work? No! I've become a professional slacker who knows all these psychological tricks, knows what bod…

This blows my mind that in the US one can make such insane money in tech while still being a slacker and retire early with a dream house bought and paid for while in Europe devs are slaving away through SCRUM powered meat grinders burning themselves out for a 3% salary increase on a pitiful 40-80k/year, no stock options, without any hope of early retirement or owning a decent home without a 30 year loan or financial…

This is just my experience, but that isn't true at all. I work in the US for a huge European based Multinational with an HQ is Western Europe, Dev offices in Western and Eastern Europe, US, and Asia. There are plenty of devs all over the world who are slackers, but who know how to play the visibility and politics game well enough that they are perceived as high value.

I've worked for two other Multinationals and with consulting and partner firms in Europe and Asia. Some people are amazing and work really hard, and some know how to make themselves look good and get fancy positions (e.g. senior architect) where they slack off and keep themselves busy selling themselves by attending meetings. At one place I worked there was constant frustration that our European colleagues had no sense of urgency or motivation at all.

I think the point dhuyrv is making is that in many situations, you can take advantage of the fact that most people don't really know the difference between what you actually do and what you project to others. In many jobs (no matter where you are in the world), playing the game of selling yourself can do more for your career and salary than writing code.

All of the above is anecdotal of course.

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