Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#381

Post by umvi » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

Infinitesimus wrote: post #97

zchrykng wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can argue all we want about how ineffective and/or misguided the War on Drugs has been, but that doesn't change that fact that crimes are crimes. Were some of the sentencing guidelines structured in a racist way? Maybe, I've heard people say that and don't have any evidence showing the opposite, but that is a side issue.

Check out https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st... if you're curious. The money quote: > "You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understan…

Didn't that quote only show up after the guy that allegedly said it died?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#382

Post by specialist » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 5:12 PM UTC

japhyr wrote: post #253

fersho311 wrote: post #106

About me: I'm asian, 32 years old. Throughout my childhood, I always thought Black people seemed so cool and funny. They exude confidence and it intimidated my to make friends with them. Now I teach people coding before and after my work as a full time software engineer. A few of my students are black. I had a hard time working with them. Later, as I became friends with them, I realized they are very self conscious a…

I like that your focus is on people being comfortable enough to ask their own questions. That's a clear, concrete goal that gets right to the heart of the issue you describe, in the library setting. One simple strategy is to close any bit of teaching you do with the phrase, "What questions do you have?" This is a subtle but important change from "Does anyone have any questions?" The first phrasing assumes people will…

"The first phrasing assumes people will have questions, and implies that you are looking for and welcoming questions."

I wish I could hug you.

There must be a zillion useful "language hacks", if we only knew.

I learned "All negatives can be stated a positive" in the early 90s. Been trying to use it ever since.

For example, instead of "Don't run!", maybe say "Please walk." Completely changed my relationship to my kid.

One helpful bit in that particular "life skills" seminar was the practice and role playing.

I would never know to use your "Does anyone have any questions?" technique unless someone showed me.

And I still struggle to imagine how to apply these kind of life lessons in my every day.

It'd be fun, helpful to having a recording of all my interactions, and have professionals review the tape with me. I took some public speaking training where we actually did this. Illuminating.

FWIW, one of the best programmers I know strongly advocates acting lessons.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#383

Post by wayoutthere » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

bsanr2 wrote: post #332

kortilla wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've been here longer than most whites (the great European migration happened right around the time the slave trade ended and that's not coincidental). This sort of proves the point though. If the entire culture was born in America, it’s very young compared to the immigrant cultures brought over from Italy, China, etc.

It wasn't. Much of black culture can be traced to West African origins, from the grammatical structure of AAVE[0], to the vernacular art which became part of Southern visual and functional design patterns[1], to attributes of contemporary black music[2]. [0] https://www.dictionary.com/e/united-states-diversity-african... [1] https://www.incollect.com/articles/hand-to-hand-southern-cra... [2] https://www.encyclopedia.…

Yeah, it's more that America's "homegrown" culture largely appropriates the art of POC (and in particular black Americans) throughout American history. Pretty much all forms of popular music (i.e. country, rock, hip-hop) can be traced back to black Jazz musicians. Black people's experiences -- even when whitewashed -- are fundamental to the idea of "American-ness" for all Americans.

It's also incredibly reductionist for anyone to identify a person by their ancestry like the centuries in between didn't happen, and ignorant to assume that reconciling one's current circumstances with one's ancestry isn't a well-explored topic (if anyone is interested, Google "double consciousness" to get started on the last 150 years of American philosophy).

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#384

Post by jpster » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #227

jpster wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Black community does not have a solid culture and tradition comparing to other immigration minority groups Just curious, what evidence do you think you have for this claim?

I think it's very poorly articulated. It may be more accurate to say that the net result of hundreds of year of policy has conspired to concentrate and grow aspects of culture that create net, lasting disadvantages. It's likely not enough to fix the discrimination itself now, or even to provide an economic hand up. Maybe some things that were adaptive / natural reactions under discrimination are now maladaptive and h…

I believe your point can be simplified:

The net result of hundreds of hundreds of years of policy has created net, lasting disadvantages. Just as intended.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#385

Post by mlyle » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 7:27 PM UTC

jpster wrote: post #384

mlyle wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's very poorly articulated. It may be more accurate to say that the net result of hundreds of year of policy has conspired to concentrate and grow aspects of culture that create net, lasting disadvantages. It's likely not enough to fix the discrimination itself now, or even to provide an economic hand up. Maybe some things that were adaptive / natural reactions under discrimination are now maladaptive and h…

I believe your point can be simplified: The net result of hundreds of hundreds of years of policy has created net, lasting disadvantages. Just as intended.

Yes, by missing the whole point you can make it simpler.

Social institutions seek stable states. These disadvantages become self-perpetuating in various ways, as my post lays out.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#386

Post by yesenadam » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 8:27 PM UTC

fiblye wrote: post #349

crimsonalucard wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true. First of all if this were true you'd see tons of asian men dating white women to escape the cultural pressure. You don't see this at all, the phenomenon is largely among women. Second of all, the pressures you describe are a bit exaggerated. The whole mother-in-law, make money and make baby deal is not very common at all. It exists and is more common among asians than westerners but it is still very…

> First of all if this were true you'd see tons of asian men dating white women to escape the cultural pressure. Before jumping to conclusions, there’s another question to ask: do Asian men not want white women, do white women not want Asian men, or is there another reason entirely?

Australia here. About 20 years ago I asked my Japanese[0] girlfriend why I saw a lot of (i.e. white) Australian guys with Japanese girlfriends, but hardly any Japanese guys with Australian girlfriends. She said with a huge laugh that Japanese guys are really afraid of Australian girls! hehe.

I thought I understood that's because Aussie girls generally would seem loud, opinionated, immodest, over-assertive, disrespectful, compared with the Japanese feminine ideal, or even the masculine ideal. And Japanese males are often..more sensitive, artistic, considerate, reflective etc - not traditional Australian male virtues!

[0] i.e. Born in Japan, here since fairly young.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#387

Post by yesenadam » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

dang wrote: post #277

gjs278 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there’s legitimate ways to moderate and copy pasting your condescending bullshit isn’t one of them. please don’t do that.

If you'd like to make some suggestions about how to improve, I'd be interested to hear them.

I want to give this comment some kind of award! Staggeringly impressive. Did you have to have a cool-off break before writing that, or are you such a zen/ninja master by now that you could write that immediately?! Thanks again for the very inspiring modding.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#388

Post by akimball » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 9:47 PM UTC

mcdramamean wrote: post #236

I'll just leave this here: https://socialequity.duke.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/wha... The wealth disparity between African Americans and the rest of America is growing. Mentorship is fine, but what most African Americans need is access to resources and stable community (which was destroyed through many years of Social Engineering).

In particular, Nixon started the war on drugs to take down black people.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#389

Post by toasterlovin » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 9:56 PM UTC

alphabettsy wrote: post #360

toasterlovin wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, Asian immigrants, statistically speaking, basically all came well after the civil rights movement, and mostly came here without any wealth, which means they were also unable to participate in generational wealth accumulation. They also had a pretty fundamental disadvantage: they didn’t speak English. Any hypothesis that attempts to explain the plight of black Americans needs to also adequately provide for the i…

I don’t believe any reasonable person thinks that centuries of racial violence and discrimination evaporated overnight and all barriers disappeared for black people. Personally I don’t think it’s reasonable to think experiences or impacts would be the same across different groups of minorities given that many policies and actions were specifically targeted at and impacted black Americans. That destruction had and con…

I don’t disagree, but I was responding to the narrow hypothesis that generational wealth is a significant causal factor. And then trying to get people to think more like investigators, instead of just rolling with whichever story sounds good (since that is determined to a large extent by the skill of the storyteller).

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#390

Post by gjs278 » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 10:00 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #386

fiblye wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all if this were true you'd see tons of asian men dating white women to escape the cultural pressure. Before jumping to conclusions, there’s another question to ask: do Asian men not want white women, do white women not want Asian men, or is there another reason entirely?

Australia here. About 20 years ago I asked my Japanese[0] girlfriend why I saw a lot of (i.e. white) Australian guys with Japanese girlfriends, but hardly any Japanese guys with Australian girlfriends. She said with a huge laugh that Japanese guys are really afraid of Australian girls! hehe. I thought I understood that's because Aussie girls generally would seem loud, opinionated, immodest, over-assertive, disrespect…

they’re not afraid. the girls aren’t attracted to them. WMAF is way more popular than the other way around.