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Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

thesash.me

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Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#111

Post by neworbit »

maxwell wrote: post #47
thesash wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly it. He motivated me to take the initiative, and now, years later, I'm in a position where I can pass that on to my team.

I had literally the same experience a few years ago. I was working at a fine dining restaurant, the dishwasher called out, so the chef happily did both dish and grill. Turned out he was the best dishwasher there. Since then, I've noticed that one invariably cooks as well as they clean.

That is a very odd assertion... if you're a good chef, and have "come up through the ranks", you've probably had to clean up after yourself... but I don't think that means that you can take the dishwasher and make him the head chef. Unless you're watching Ratatouille.

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#112

Post by laurasbadideas »

edw519 wrote: post #39

This reminds me of the litmus test my father had in his small business years ago. Every new employee, no matter where they worked, had the same first task: clean the bathroom. Lots of people never made it through the first day. I guess he figured that the best way to have employees who would "wash the dishes when nobody else will" is to only hire those who would.

I'm curious about whether the business owner mentioned this during the hiring process.

I also wonder whether this affected the demographics of the company. If someone were to spring this on me on my first day of work, I'd probably wonder whether this was a hazing ritual or a test (and whether the desired behavior was to clean the bathroom myself or get it clean some other way). If, in addition to that, I happened to be the first female employee or the first employee with an ethnicity different from the owner's, I'd also wonder whether this was really something they did to everyone or whether it was some kind of racist/sexist stunt -- especially since this would be happening on my first day of work, before I had a chance to get to know anyone reasonably well. Regardless of the actual motivation behind the request, I think it might have the effect of disproportionately driving away people who are in a different demographic than the majority of people at the company.

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#113

Post by bugsy »

sloak wrote: post #45

Reminds me about the story of Netflix CEO. From http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/entertainmentnewsbuzz/2011/0... [... Huffington coaxed Hastings to talk about leadership -- and one early experience that informed his leadership style. Hastings recalled how, as a 25-year-old software programmer, he would stay up all night, propelled by coffee. He'd leave an array of mugs on his desk. Once a week, he would discover the c…

The real question is how much is the CEO getting paid to wash dishes?

It would make more sense to hire someone for minimum wage to clean the bathrooms, empty trash and wash dishes, and free up time for the CEO to do other things.

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#114

Post by bugsy »

alnayyir wrote: post #57
jarek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm much more willing to do an undesirable job related to my position than cleaning. If you make it clear during interviewing that it's a small company and the employee will be expected to help with cleaning, then there's no problem. (For the sake of argument; I actually don't mind cleaning all that much but nevertheless it's not high on my list of things to do at work. I'd prefer fixing hairy old VBScript code.)

Relevance is besides the point, you're paid to work. Your job title isn't some kind of license to refuse work you don't want to do. You keep trying to frame this as being an issue of relevancy when really it's that you're simply not eager enough to get dirty like edw's father wanted out of his people. You tell me to clean the bathroom on my first day, I'll ask where the scrub and bottle of 409 are. Now if we're talki…

How do you feel about being required to work 80 hours each week, being paid only for 40, and then being required to work an additional 10 hours on top of that cleaning the bathrooms and kitchen because since you're on salary, your time is free?

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#115

Post by nandemo »

alnayyir wrote: post #57
jarek wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm much more willing to do an undesirable job related to my position than cleaning. If you make it clear during interviewing that it's a small company and the employee will be expected to help with cleaning, then there's no problem. (For the sake of argument; I actually don't mind cleaning all that much but nevertheless it's not high on my list of things to do at work. I'd prefer fixing hairy old VBScript code.)

Relevance is besides the point, you're paid to work. Your job title isn't some kind of license to refuse work you don't want to do. You keep trying to frame this as being an issue of relevancy when really it's that you're simply not eager enough to get dirty like edw's father wanted out of his people. You tell me to clean the bathroom on my first day, I'll ask where the scrub and bottle of 409 are. Now if we're talki…

> Your job title isn't some kind of license to refuse work you don't want to do.

Why, yes it is. If you're a janitor you're not expected to code.

In some places a job title and job description are even mandatory and they are used in case of a labour dispute. Whether this is a good for companies and employees is a separate question, but it's a big stretch to say that job titles aren't relevant.

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#116

Post by jarek »

blueben wrote: post #108
Retric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is I would both clean the bathroom and continue looking for a job. Smile, pitch in, and quietly get the fuck out of there. Net cost me not much. Net cost to the company 10-30+k depending on how long I stay. PS: Turnover at the 3-6 month period is the most expensive for a SW company. You just lost all that hiring momentum, wasted all that time getting someone up to speed, damage moral, and they leave befor…

You would screw over a company just because they made you do an undesirable job for exactly one day? Obviously the test works.

That's a bit of a catch-22, isn't it? "Wow, you hate our company. I'm glad we made you hate us so we could find out." Note: an unnecessary undesirable job.

Not to mention he's not screwing a company, he's leaving a contract under established terms after discovering an incompatibility. When you screw up and get fired, you don't really get to say "I'm glad I screwed up before you had the chance to fire me."

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#117

Post by alnayyir »

jarek wrote: post #110
alnayyir wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country, programmers work salary unless they're contractors and don't have any conception of overtime in their contracts. Maybe things are different where you are.

I'm paid salary and I'm under the impression that's the norm. Nevertheless there is a fairly standard work week and more than one way of compensation for exceeding that.

>there is a fairly standard work week and more than one way of compensation for exceeding that.

I call it a raise or a promotion.

Or keeping your job for doing it. You're salaried at a particular rate under the assumption that step up to the plate in case of emergency/deadline, otherwise they'd pay you less or pay you hourly.

Which kind goes back to edw's anecdote about his dad.

Rising to the occasion.

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#119

Post by jarek »

alnayyir wrote: post #117
jarek wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm paid salary and I'm under the impression that's the norm. Nevertheless there is a fairly standard work week and more than one way of compensation for exceeding that.

>there is a fairly standard work week and more than one way of compensation for exceeding that. I call it a raise or a promotion. Or keeping your job for doing it. You're salaried at a particular rate under the assumption that step up to the plate in case of emergency/deadline, otherwise they'd pay you less or pay you hourly. Which kind goes back to edw's anecdote about his dad. Rising to the occasion.

At my workplace we've been offered incentive bonuses or additional paid vacation time in addition to standard raises/promotions, but hey, whatever works for you and your employer.

I doubt accepting unnecessary unrelated busywork is very strongly correlated with "rising to the occasion," unless the occasions are death marches.

Re: Want to be a leader? Wash the Dishes When Nobody Else Will.

#120

Post by alnayyir »

jarek wrote: post #119
alnayyir wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is a fairly standard work week and more than one way of compensation for exceeding that. I call it a raise or a promotion. Or keeping your job for doing it. You're salaried at a particular rate under the assumption that step up to the plate in case of emergency/deadline, otherwise they'd pay you less or pay you hourly. Which kind goes back to edw's anecdote about his dad. Rising to the occasion.

At my workplace we've been offered incentive bonuses or additional paid vacation time in addition to standard raises/promotions, but hey, whatever works for you and your employer. I doubt accepting unnecessary unrelated busywork is very strongly correlated with "rising to the occasion," unless the occasions are death marches.

Crossing your wires chief. Unrelated busywork isn't what I was talking about, anymore.
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