Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment • Hacker News Board

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#171

Post by distances » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 11:30 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #119

distances wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of which are now practically deaf on mobile. Flutter comes from Google, and while that doesn't guarantee it'll live, at least it has better potential.

They are only dead on the SV HN bubble kind of thing. Dart also comes from Google and if it wasn't for Ad Words team it would be more dead than anything else. Flutter is it very last opportunity to stay relevant. Given that, I rather bet in dead technology with useful programming languages.

Hard disagree. Microsoft has practically abandoned Xamarin and is doing React Native themselves these days. Qt tried on mobile but never took off, there's hardly any mobile apps made with it and the few there are feel very out of place. Note that I really like Qt/QML so I wish it fared better -- please let me know if you have some success stories to share.

Flutter is the last option for Dart to stay relevant sure. You learn a programming language in a couple of days though so it just doesn't matter, and doesn't change the fact that in mobile world C# and C++ are just as irrelevant. I worked for years with C++, but I don't expect to ever again need it in a professional setting.

This is of course just from mobile perspective. Everywhere else Flutter is currently useless, and Qt/C# perhaps a good choice.

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#172

Post by amimetic » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 11:52 AM UTC

Benjammer wrote: post #164

amimetic wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please try out one of Flutter or React Native. I think you’ll be surprised how much nicer they are for anything like this. The code is certainly not cumbersome when compared to the equivalent XML. Also, in Flutter and React Native you don’t (typically) have to wait for your code to compile as they do hot reload.

You, and everyone else who makes this argument seems to blatantly dismiss the tooling around Android, specifically Android Studio and the layout preview panel. The person you are responding to is talking about editing UI layouts in XML, using the preview panel, without building the project at all. Everyone loves to talk about "hot reloading" and obsess over reducing build times incrementally as if that's the only way…

For static layouts this can work pretty well. I think it is still typically a bit slower/more awkward. And often harder to change. (I actually have most experience with native Android.)

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#173

Post by amimetic » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 11:55 AM UTC

hrkristian wrote: post #169

amimetic wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please try out one of Flutter or React Native. I think you’ll be surprised how much nicer they are for anything like this. The code is certainly not cumbersome when compared to the equivalent XML. Also, in Flutter and React Native you don’t (typically) have to wait for your code to compile as they do hot reload.

Android Native also has hot reload, what on earth are you on about? You get both with Android Native, layout preview and hot reloading.

I was addressing the comment and in no way claimed Android doesn’t have a hot reload solution.

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#174

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 12:50 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #171

pjmlp wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are only dead on the SV HN bubble kind of thing. Dart also comes from Google and if it wasn't for Ad Words team it would be more dead than anything else. Flutter is it very last opportunity to stay relevant. Given that, I rather bet in dead technology with useful programming languages.

Hard disagree. Microsoft has practically abandoned Xamarin and is doing React Native themselves these days. Qt tried on mobile but never took off, there's hardly any mobile apps made with it and the few there are feel very out of place. Note that I really like Qt/QML so I wish it fared better -- please let me know if you have some success stories to share. Flutter is the last option for Dart to stay relevant sure. Yo…

Microsoft has officially communicated many times, including at BUILD 2019 and .NET Conf, that React Native is for Web developers, and Xamarin for .NET developers.

They aren't one pony trick shop.

Qt didn't not take off for free beer mobile devs, it is doing alright for the kind of corporations that actually buy development tools.

Again we aren't talking about SV HN kind of bubbles here.

And I am betting Flutter won't save Dart, specially with Android team doing JetPack Composer and teaming with JetBrains on Kotlin/Native portability between iOS and Android.

Long term, PWAs with WebGL and WebAssembly will take it all.

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#175

Post by tatersolid » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 1:34 PM UTC

bananabreakfast wrote: post #47

siquick wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lower dev resources Learning a completely new language in Dart to even get started with Flutter doesn't seem like low dev resources. With React Native you are using: - Javascript which most devs have a grasp on in 2020 - JSX which really isn't much different to HTML - Styling is practically just CSS with slightly different property formatting and naming If you've decided to go down the RN then theres a decent chanc…

Learning Dart is definitely not a large dev hurdle. Most people (esp. js devs) can read dart and understand what it is doing without ever having even seen the code before. I've found it takes an experienced engineer about two weeks to learn enough Go to be productive and Dart is honestly easier than that.

I have 20 C#/JS/SQL developers I want to put in a mobile project. So I’m supposed to eat an employee-year of salary to even consider Flutter+Dart?

Not gonna happen, especially with Google’s track record. Already been burned by the Angular v1 -> v2+ nightmare.

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#176

Post by distances » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #174

distances wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. Microsoft has practically abandoned Xamarin and is doing React Native themselves these days. Qt tried on mobile but never took off, there's hardly any mobile apps made with it and the few there are feel very out of place. Note that I really like Qt/QML so I wish it fared better -- please let me know if you have some success stories to share. Flutter is the last option for Dart to stay relevant sure. Yo…

Microsoft has officially communicated many times, including at BUILD 2019 and .NET Conf, that React Native is for Web developers, and Xamarin for .NET developers. They aren't one pony trick shop. Qt didn't not take off for free beer mobile devs, it is doing alright for the kind of corporations that actually buy development tools. Again we aren't talking about SV HN kind of bubbles here. And I am betting Flutter won't…

The article topic was mobile development frameworks, so that was the basis for my judgement of Xamarin and Qt too. I do mobile development professionally, and Xamarin and Qt aren't current topics. It's basically only native vs. React Native, with Flutter recently challenging the React Native side on dev mindset but not yet on job opportunities.

Qt is used in corporations that buy development tools yes. But not for mobile, it's mostly embedded/medical/automotive. Xamarin peaked after Windows Phone died as the refuge of C# development, but React Native ate its crossplatform pie. Are they used? Sure, as a very small niche. But the fact is that currently companies with money build two native apps, and those with less money to throw around use React Native to target both platforms.

It's hard to get excited about web technologies replacing native apps when they've been upcoming contenders since around 2007 starting with Symbian. Maybe it happens one day, maybe it doesn't.

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#177

Post by pjmlp » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

distances wrote: post #176

pjmlp wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has officially communicated many times, including at BUILD 2019 and .NET Conf, that React Native is for Web developers, and Xamarin for .NET developers. They aren't one pony trick shop. Qt didn't not take off for free beer mobile devs, it is doing alright for the kind of corporations that actually buy development tools. Again we aren't talking about SV HN kind of bubbles here. And I am betting Flutter won't…

The article topic was mobile development frameworks, so that was the basis for my judgement of Xamarin and Qt too. I do mobile development professionally, and Xamarin and Qt aren't current topics. It's basically only native vs. React Native, with Flutter recently challenging the React Native side on dev mindset but not yet on job opportunities. Qt is used in corporations that buy development tools yes. But not for mo…

On my market if JavaScript is at all considered, only Ionic comes into play.

Don't project your anecdotes in world wide projections.

Any numbers from Gartner reports or something, to prove how my little bubble is a niche?

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#178

Post by distances » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 6:10 PM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #177

distances wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article topic was mobile development frameworks, so that was the basis for my judgement of Xamarin and Qt too. I do mobile development professionally, and Xamarin and Qt aren't current topics. It's basically only native vs. React Native, with Flutter recently challenging the React Native side on dev mindset but not yet on job opportunities. Qt is used in corporations that buy development tools yes. But not for mo…

On my market if JavaScript is at all considered, only Ionic comes into play. Don't project your anecdotes in world wide projections. Any numbers from Gartner reports or something, to prove how my little bubble is a niche?

For mobile non-game apps in app stores, targeting private people as users? If so, you then do have a very different market around there indeed. Let's not dig for market research reports, I don't really have the interest for that now. I'll just take your word for it.

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#179

Post by PunksATawnyFill » Sun, Jan 05, 2020, 7:32 PM UTC

Benjammer wrote: post #42

This is super interesting, but the problem I have is that this guy's eye for design leaves a lot to be desired. When was the last time someone built a clunky table directly into the UI and added fully styled table rows dynamically? Why not modernize the design, and use a styled list view with a data adapter and try this again on each platform? It didn't surprise me at all that he struggled with the table in basically…

Could you please elaborate on this a bit?

I’m an iOS developer who will soon have to maintain an Android version of one of my apps.

Does “a styled list view with a data adapter” exist on iOS? I don’t know what this is.

Thanks!

Re: Flutter vs. Other Mobile Development Frameworks: A UI and Performance Experiment

#180

Post by ajdegol » Mon, Jan 06, 2020, 10:04 AM UTC

Perhaps it comes down to personal preferences and there is no correct answer. I rewrote one of my apps in Flutter to test it; there were some things that were better, and some things much worse. I mean when React Native goes wrong on some build it's like 24 hours of trying to recompile and the pain is palpable.

Ultimately I decided against using flutter, personally. Dart is okay, actually I quite liked it, but the flutter syntax is verbose is a special way; when you effectively require your IDE to code for you that to my old bones is a certain type of code smell and something is fundamentally amiss.

I may have been doing it wrong, but centering and styling text didn't feel like it should be a widget for each single thing.