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Ask HN: Are books worth it?

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Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people in the self-help section need something else . Those things (philosophy, literature, history and science) are the luxury of folks who aren't struggling with e.g. depression, abuse, drugs & alcohol, co-dependency, etc. It's a little like, "Have you tried not having a broken leg?" Honestly, you're lucky if the only personal problems you have can be solved by philosophy, literature, history and science. (I ha…

> The people in the self-help section need something else. Those things (philosophy, literature, history and science) are the luxury of folks who aren't struggling with e.g. depression, abuse, drugs & alcohol, co-dependency, etc. Actually it's the inverse. A healthy dose of philosophy, literature, history and science are what people suffering from "depression, abuse, drugs & alcohol, co-dependency" can use to liberat…

Look I'm not shitting on high culture.

And yes, there's a lot of snake oil out there. (Personally I hate the medallions that are supposed to protect against stray EM! And don't get me started on audiophiles.)

> The rest (99% of the self help shelves) is snake oil sold by marketeers to the gullible...

You haven't read "99% of the self help shelves" have you?

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cured in a single session of hypnotherapy by a guy If you were cured by attending a hypnotherapy session by the guy who wrote the book rather than by reading the book I don't see how it supports your assertion (or what I think is your assertion: that self help books at least sometimes are better than the philosophy, etc., books). I'm not saying you are necessarily wrong, just that it doesn't follow.

Ah, the missing piece is that this guy only publishes self-help books. If you omit them from your search for knowledge you might miss it entirely. (E.g. the wikipedia entry for this school of psychology is all about how it's a pseudoscience, etc.)

Jungian, by chance?

Much of psychology (at least in the non-behaviorist arena) and self-help deal with ideas that are really grounded in philosophy proper. Philosophy is the original psychology and the original self-help.

Philosophy is no luxury. It saves lives. It's a deep failure of culture that it isn't a core area of primary and secondary curriculum.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out my answers to the other sibling comments. Would you settle for quit smoking by a self-help book? ;-D Here's something that blew me away... My sister just quit smoking. From ten cigarettes a day to zero. We (her family and friends) are all so overjoyed. How did she do it? https://www.allencarr.com/ She read that book. That's all. When she was done, she was no longer smoking. Within a few days her sense of sm…

I had a friend who also read that book. I don't know if he picked up smoking again but I remember him telling that the book basically hammers it into you that smoking is bad for 150 pages and that you just have to give up smoking because it's so annoying to read about how bad it is.

That's more-or-less what my sister said.

Whatever works.

I mentioned this thread to her and she wanted me to add that there was no withdrawal and her behavior didn't change. When she has tried to quit previously it had significant effects on her mood. This time we (her friends and family) didn't notice she had quit until she told us! It was the best Christmas present.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#294
I'm sorry that you have viewed books this way for at least ten years. Deeper treatment of a given topic or story necessarily takes a long time to explain and the format of longform text exposition is called a book. They are worth reading. Also many are timeless, most problems are not new. Please read books and focus at first on books considered to be timeless classics. It sounds like you will be pleasantly surprised. I expect this will enrich your life a lot in ways you probably don't know exist. Don't expect immediate measurable benefits. Also don't give up after reading one or two. Also you will get faster at reading them.

I think a big part of the problem here is that if you focus on topical and especially self-help books, the content in them is shallow, mostly meaningless bullshit that is comparable in quality to online discussion. As a good general rule don't read anything marketed as self help. And I can't emphasize enough how shallow and low value online discussion generally is.

Fiction is good. Non-fiction can be good if you know what you want, but popular non-fiction is more likely to be bullshit. I recommend One Hundred Years Of Solitude, which is widely regarded as one of the best novels ever.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#295
tl;dr: yes

First let me address the time investment angle. Not every hour is the same. There are active hours when I'm creating something, having conversations, actively learning. There are passive hours when I'm consuming content - watching movies or YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, reading books. An hour spent reading a book is not an hour not spent learning a new ML technique. It's an hour not spent watching TV. Once you realize that, you stop feeling guilty.

Now back to the main subject. Reading Cliff's notes and comments will give you some idea of what's in a book, but it will be by definition incomplete, and likely biased. A good example is George Orwell's 1984. You need to read the entire book to understand the very last sentence. It is very powerful, but if you skip the book and just read it out of context it won't have the same effect. You may think you understand what the book is about, but that understanding will be rather shallow.

The biggest problem with books is that, like everywhere else, 90+% is crap and it's not easy to tell which books you'll like. Recommendations don't work well because they depend on people. You won't necessarily like a book I liked. So effectively you're on your own as far as discovery goes.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#296
I am in love with books and the notion that you can talk with another person long dead without any distortion or distraction. Some rules I abide by:

1. Any book that you expect to read once and once only (popular science, pulp fiction, toilet-reading) rent from the library. Keep it by your bed at night and give-er by the lamplight.

2. Any book that you can read, word-over-word, end-on-end, without confusion or introspection can be consumed in condensed form. Condensed forms come in many guises:(audio-books, blog-feeds, wiki-pages etc.)

3. You are missing out on all the glories that are not defined by 1 and 2. A good book should be a conversation, held at length, over time.

You asked for philosphy in another comment:

Victor Frankyl: Man in search of meaning

Marcus Aurelius: Meditations

Jung: Development of Personality, Archetypes/Aion

Nietsche: all and any

For philosophical fiction:

Goethe: Faust

Hemingway: Death in the afternoon (this was my first glimpse into why books can provide lightness of body, displacement of time: wait for the 4th-wall-breaking-rapport with the old woman)

David Foster Wallace:Rise Simba, Infinite Jest, etc.

https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/HarpersMagazine-2001-...

There have been studies that your brain scans feeds and webpages differently than text on a page. You set yourself up to not pay attention / are just "scraping the good bits"

Someone mentioned a while back that Infinite Jest (1000 page tome + 300 pages endnotes!) had ~50 pages that made the whole thing worth it. The immediate following comment was "why not just read the 50 pages?". It is the context around which we find our content that gives it worth. The internet allows you to bypass the context.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most problems in your life can't be solved by reading a book, period. How do you know? Not to be rude but why should I trust you more than some author of a "self-help" book? I mean, a religious person might tell you that you can solve all your problems reading Scripture. Heck, I openly maintain that most people could solve most of their problems by reading (and applying) the "Core Transformation Process" book. Do y…

> How do you know? Not to be rude but why should I trust you more than some author of a "self-help" book? For one, because he doesn't try to sell you anything. Second, you don't get to "know" because you are hand-fed some hard proofs or figures. You either know it already (and agree) or can see the point the parent is making, correlate it with your experiences and observations, and recognise it's true -- or, of cours…

> For one, because he doesn't try to sell you anything.

Publishers of philosophy, literature, history and science books are also trying to make a buck, eh?

> Second, you don't get to "know" because you are hand-fed some hard proofs or figures.

I don't understand this sentence.

> You either know it already (and agree) or can see the point the parent is making, correlate it with your experiences and observations, and recognise it's true -- or, of course, you don't (and e.g. you have a different experience).

Right, and it seems to me that the way forward is to share our experiences in good faith to try to find the mutually true union of our worldviews, eh?

If I understood GP's experiences better I might be better able to understand where a statement that looks to me to be so bizarre ("most problems in your life can't be solved by reading a book, period. Self-help or otherwise.") might make sense. I mean, think about it: books are where we store our knowledge, eh? Is GP including textbooks?

FFS, If you can't solve your problems by reading books we should just burn the libraries?

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#298

I was like you. I spent my first 10 years after college reading essentially 0 books, instead filling my reading/idle time with news, podcasts, and other pursuits. When I started my company, my co-founder was reading books at a heavy clip, and was suddenly coming in with great ideas to discuss, new perspectives on things, and a whole world of different opinions based on what he was reading. I vowed to keep up with the…

> got over my "audiobooks aren't real reading" stigma, and have since torn through over 100 books on 2x

So in your post when you refer to "reading", do you actually mean listening to audiobooks? While audiobooks have their place, I don't believe them to be the equivalent of reading. To think so is to believe the value of the book is the content itself, but literature as a medium is more than its written word. Literature can be an art, and not just in terms of prose and the writer behind it, but also in cases before mass printing was invented and entire books were written and illustrated painstakingly by hand.

And between reading and listening, I wouldn't be surprised if reading required more "brain power" to process, in the same way that (supposedly) reading does compared to watching TV. The auditory system is just more innate than the process of reading is, which is a learned skill you aren't born with. Of course this makes audiobooks more accessible and easier to digest, which would be one of their merits for a lot of people. This is my largely unsubstantiated opinion and I'm not trying to insinuate anything in particular. I just believe reading to be its own distinct pastime and skill.

Personally, I can't stand listening to audiobooks, especially while doing menial tasks like chores, because it feels like anytime I get distracted, the words go in and come out the other ear. The retention just isn't there, it might as well be background noise.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#299
For me books are a better entertainment. I find that the long form is good because it helps build my attention span. It's all to easy to slip to barely being able to focus for more then a minute these days. That said here are some tips I've found online for reading books more effectively:

-don't worry about reading speed, you will get better with practice like anything else.

-do close the book at points and try to remember what you've just read. This can help you retain the information better. Sometimes I also like to remember that my subconscious will process the info into the neural net either way so it's like 50% remembered even if I don't consciously know it my decisions are shaped by it a little bit.

-do flip through a book and read random pages before you start. This way you can avoid books that are mostly 'fluff' or that just aren't relevant to what you want to read about. (I only heard this recently and it has been fantastic!)

Personally I like to switch back and forth between a nonfiction book, like about science or computers, and a fiction one that entertains me. That way I get the reward book after a harder book and the cycle keeps me coming back for more. To many textbooks sorts in a row and I get bored.

Another way to remember what you read better is to take notes while you read. These can be annotations in the margins or on a separate piece of paper/computer. I read that just the act of writing those things down helps you remember even if you don't look at it again. `Mind Maps` might also be useful to you in understanding what you learn.

One last thing you probably already know but telling someone else about what your reading can help you practice recall and find out what parts of it your missing like a mini oral test.

Re: Ask HN: Are books worth it?

#300
I suggest reading for fun. Find some good fiction, and just read it for pleasure. Long-form fiction will never be obsolete, either in print or on a device.

(If you like sci-fi, I suggest starting with Issac Asimov's foundation series.)

Oh, don't waste your time with self-help books. They're mostly garbage written by people trying to justify their over-inflated ego.

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