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Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

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Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#31

Post by chc »

ergo98 wrote: post #20
kenjackson wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia used to be up around 60% of the mobile phone market (in terms of profit). Now they're around ~20%, while Apple is more than 50% (on less than 5% marketshare). Nokia is still making money, but pretty much all new profit is going to everyone else (especially Apple). http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2666565/posts

Do you think there is a fixed "profit" out there for the taking? Apple's profit margin is an extreme aberration, and it isn't sustainable. Any comparison that relies upon profit numbers is...disturbed.

Apple has been making similar margins on all of its products for the past 10 years. How can you say it isn't sustainable?

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#32

Post by gonzo »

balakk wrote: post #25
ldayley wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android on Nokia hardware is an appealing idea, but given Stephen Elop's Microsoft background I wonder if they won't shift to WP7. Or both.

Nokia on WP7 would mean they would have to cannibalize their OS teams, their app.dev stack(QT), existing software etc. gutting a huge part their workforce. It is far more easier to have Meego adopt an Android personality, since they're the same kernel inside. They could add Nokia flavor on top. The far more important decision is positioning; they would've to leave the low-end phone market to chinese, and focus on the…

a) not quite the same kernel. You appear to be unaware of what Google has done to the internals of linux

b) having an OS team has turned into a liability for Nokia. CEOs normally don't care about 'gutting' workforces. In fact, I predict that Elop will cut the 'deadwood' of the old company as soon as he announces whatever on Friday.

c) (edit) Elop has to pay attention to Oracle having sued Google over Java in Android.

No, this is Microsoft establishing a brand in the phone space via take-over of Nokia. Watch and see.

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#33

Post by SwellJoe »

kooshball wrote: post #5

wow, that is one way to motivate the troops. The lack of mentioning of WP7 at all and the re-emphasis of Andriod as a competitor makes me think it's unlikely they will be running Andriod any time soon.

I don't follow your logic.

Windows 7 isn't much of a competitor. It had a smaller debut than Android and iPhone, by a large amount, and is being outsold by both so the gap is widening. If I were Nokia, I wouldn't be worrying about fellow also-rans in the industry, like Microsoft. I'd be worried about the products that were eating my lunch, and I'd let Microsoft figure out how to protect their own lunch.

If Nokia chooses Windows for their next generation, I'd wager they'll keep dropping like a rock. How could they generate any excitement over a Windows phone? Nobody likes Windows phones, even people who like Windows on the desktop.

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#34

Post by Geee »

metageek wrote: post #28
Geee wrote: post #13

That's really interesting read, but doesn't tell anything about specifics. I'm not really sure what they will announce on Friday. As we can see however, it's about ecosystems, not about the OS. 1. Qt is really valuable asset, they are keeping it. Actually they are keeping everything they have now. 2. Joining WP7 or Android as an OEM would cut Nokia out of their ecosystems, not going to happen. 3. Adopting WP7 or Andr…

> My best guess is WP7 with Qt allowing Nokia's services and apps on those phones. This would be additional to Symbian and MeeGo devices. If they adopt any third-party OS, I can't see them keeping MeeGo. That'd be stupid; it'd leave them having to build a MeeGo ecosystem instead of just taking advantage of the one they join. And I don't see Microsoft allowing Qt on WP7; it'd undermine their whole .Net-based story.

On the other hand, I'd believe Microsoft would want Nokia to "catalyse" their ecosystem, because of the lacking success of WP7. The ecosystem of WP7 is now very weak, and not much of an asset for Nokia, except MS services like Bing. But, Nokia doesn't want to give up Qt apps and their own services.

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#35

Post by metageek »

ldayley wrote: post #3
quannum wrote: post #2

The idea of a Nokia device running Android is pretty appealing. They've always had good hardware, but Symbian has become a develpment dead-end, and Meego isn't yet here.

Android on Nokia hardware is an appealing idea, but given Stephen Elop's Microsoft background I wonder if they won't shift to WP7. Or both.

I see two things to make me hope they might not go with WP7. The first is the ecosystem: he correctly points out that the ecosystem is what they're lacking; but WP7 doesn't yet have one to offer. The second is that MS apparently exercises strong control over the design of WP7 phones, which would leave Nokia little room to distinguish themselves.

An Android-based Nokia could come with improvements in the phone features that make it feel like a Nokia, so that existing Nokia customers who are considering jumping ship to the Android of the week will be more comfortable sticking with Nokia.

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#36

Post by ergo98 »

chc wrote: post #31
ergo98 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there is a fixed "profit" out there for the taking? Apple's profit margin is an extreme aberration, and it isn't sustainable. Any comparison that relies upon profit numbers is...disturbed.

Apple has been making similar margins on all of its products for the past 10 years. How can you say it isn't sustainable?

10 years ago Apple had 5 billion in revenue. Now they're pushing 100 billion in revenue. They butting in on competitors who operate in the 5% margin range, and who are all desperately starting to claw back at Apple's gains.

No, it isn't sustainable. History will prove me out, and in 3 years I would bet that Apple has seen a significant margin haircut. Quote me on a 50% decline.

As a comparison, by the way, look at Sony (which was the Apple before Apple). Once a purveyor of high margin audio equipment, they saturated that market and started moving to high markup mobile audio equipment...and then TVs...and then lower markup mobile equipment, etc, and then everyone started fighting back.

Apple is exactly following the Sony curve.

EDIT: Arrowed down. This is one of those seminal moments that speak volumes about a community, and I think HN is done (just furthering an observation that has grown). Account and site abandoned.

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#37

Post by foobarbazetc »

The only way forward is to embrace WP7 and become the WP7 phone. Build apps and an ecosystem around that. Hell, get Microsoft to acquire Nokia and make WP7 exclusive. WP7 is a much better platform than Android anyway (in a couple of OS updates at least).

There is no way that Nokia will ever win using Symbian/MeeGo or Android.

If they stay the course then Nokia's dead and will never recover.

Re: Nokia CEO: Nokia is "standing on a burning platform"

#40

Post by Geee »

SandB0x wrote: post #12

> The battle of devices has now become a war of ecosystems, where ecosystems include not only the hardware and software of the device, but developers, applications, ecommerce, advertising, search, social applications, location-based services, unified communications and many other things. Our competitors aren't taking our market share with devices; they are taking our market share with an entire ecosystem. This means…

War of ecosystems.. Google is their worst competitor. They either join smaller ones like WP7, WebOS, Bada etc. or keep on their own.
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