Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#171

Post by nealabq » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

haecceity wrote: post #64

robmiller wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically, I understand a 1968 law put into effect the Man in the House rule. Black families had to decide if welfare would pay better than the father's job. Many left the house so the mother and child(ren) could receive the welfare payment. The Moe Factz podcast has been helpful to me in understanding these structural problems in society. https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Man-in-the-Ho... http://www.…

What was the justification for this rule? It almost seems intentionally malicious.

The authors of this regulation probably assumed that married couples would not be induced to split just to collect money, and that single moms would stay chaste in order to collect, and thus not have more out-of-wedlock children. So they set up a law that incentivized behavior they were trying to avoid. It's like the Marriage Penalty ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_penalty ) except worse.

So it probably wasn't a result of maliciousness but rather a lack of imagination and empathy (aka stupidity).

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#172

Post by lopmotr » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:25 PM UTC

zchrykng wrote: post #132

legopelle wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying that black people have a higher propensity for crime. Is it not more plausible that humans are more or less alike, and the difference is outside their control?

Black people aren't predisposed to commit crimes more often than anyone else. It is just that a higher percentage of them grow up poor and/or with just a single parent, which are factors in likelihood to commit crimes, which leads to higher incarceration rates, which just feeds the beginning factors. When you control for economic status and parents, white people have similar rates. The factors that make it more likel…

When you saids "It is just that .." , did you really mean those are the only causes of the higher black crime rate? If not, what do you think the other major causes are?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#173

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

Noumenon72 wrote: post #87

jmull wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course that's true. In fact, it's obvious enough that we can be fairly sure the author knows this too. I could just tell you why I think this article is focused as it is, but I think it will be a lot more useful if I challenge you. So: why do you think this article is titled and focused as it is on black boys?

What it made me think of is how I see people being an extra level of harsh with black boys who run at the swimming pool or talk at the library. To me it seems like authority figures fear them getting out of control, think they only respond to discipline, or have had enough problems before that they crack down hard. I think I would respond more rebelliously to that approach myself. I'm not saying black boys would resp…

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#174

Post by jpster » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:26 PM UTC

ausjke wrote: post #108

Black community does not have a solid culture and tradition comparing to other immigration minority groups, as other minority groups can succeed in USA without much troubles. I thought about adopting a black boy for a while, I may still do that, I want to help, but don't know how to do it, the gap is just too wide to connect for me somehow.

> Black community does not have a solid culture and tradition comparing to other immigration minority groups

Just curious, what evidence do you think you have for this claim?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#175

Post by intrepidhero » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #100

tpmx wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. That's an insanely large part of that population. 2. 11% still doesn't go a long way in explaining the "fatherless issue", although we probably need firm numbers on that too.

11% may even seem like a small number until you consider that not all the black men who have been incarcerated at least once in their life are currently incarcerated. 25% of black and hispanic men will face incarceration at least once in their life[0]. The incarceration is also skewed towards younger men who are one supposes potentially more likely to miss out on the formative years of their children's lives. It's al…

11% is a huge and totally unacceptable number. We need to get our shit together.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#176

Post by rexpop » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:27 PM UTC

trentnix wrote: post #159

jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I struggle to buy this line of thinking that, somehow, the epidemic of single-parent (and no parent) households among blacks (or any ethnic or economic group) is the consequence of discriminatory systems or conspiracy or racism. Such systems of discrimination surely aren't more powerful now than when the government was enforcing Jim Crow, when schools were segregated by force, when the Ku Klux Klan was not only activ…

> Such systems of discrimination surely aren't more powerful now than when the government was enforcing Jim Crow, when schools were segregated by force, when the Ku Klux Klan was not only active but had active members sitting in Congress, and when academics openly claimed that non-whites were inferior to whites and proposed eugenic 'solutions'.

Unfortunately, they are. Those clumsy relics of explicit bias were too reliant on individual antipathy, which is dissipating in a connected world, where others' experiences area available through books, movies, and the Internet.

What we have, instead, is a much more sophisticated, and less error-prone system. It's not a "convenient scapegoat," it's actually very, very inconvenient. Institutional biases are hard to change, especially when they're baked into the ends, and not incidental means.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#177

Post by drno123 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

legopelle wrote: post #71

zchrykng wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The higher crime rates leading to higher incarceration rates is probably a bigger factor than "white racism". Edit: Making this edit to clarify what I'm trying to say, since several responses has tipped me off to how it could be read. Being black doesn't have anything to do with committing more crimes. Higher crime rates is much more a factor of economic and family status. Both of which are negatively impacted by hig…

You're saying that black people have a higher propensity for crime. Is it not more plausible that humans are more or less alike, and the difference is outside their control?

I heard someone say a long time ago something along the lines that the frontal lobe develops differently between ethnic groups and that it controls your empathy and impulse reactions. I haven’t seen any research that supports this though (and did nit search for that). It would be interesting to see if this claim is supported by science.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#178

Post by bsanr2 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

trentnix wrote: post #159

jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I struggle to buy this line of thinking that, somehow, the epidemic of single-parent (and no parent) households among blacks (or any ethnic or economic group) is the consequence of discriminatory systems or conspiracy or racism. Such systems of discrimination surely aren't more powerful now than when the government was enforcing Jim Crow, when schools were segregated by force, when the Ku Klux Klan was not only activ…

>Such systems of discrimination surely aren't more powerful now

How do you figure? Is it easier or harder to fight discrimination in, say, employment when, "We don't hire negroes," is stated upfront, compared to when black applicants are denied for "cultural fit" reasons?

>something else is clearly doing the lion's share of destruction.

Again, how do you figure?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#179

Post by drno123 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:31 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #86

Causality1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage of African-American children in single-parent homes went from 20% in 1960 to 65% in 2017. Is institutional white racism worse now than it was sixty years ago?

Yes. You know what else happened in that time? The War on Drugs.

I am European - does Canada have War on drugs? How many black children in Canada are raised in single-parent families?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#180

Post by sidlls » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:33 PM UTC

Meekro wrote: post #158

Infinitesimus wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st... if you're curious. The money quote: > "You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understan…

The origins of that quote are dubious. Author Dan Baum claims that Nixon lawyer John Ehrlichman made this confession to him back in 1994, but Dan waited until 2016 to publish it-- long enough that most people in Nixon's inner circle (including Ehrlichman himself) have died and couldn't set the record straight. However, Pat Buchanan (long time adviser to Nixon) said in an interview that the quote is nonsense.

Pat Buchanan is certainly a reputable source.