Live data from Hacker News

Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

educationpost.org

151–160 of 406 posts

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can argue all we want about how ineffective and/or misguided the War on Drugs has been, but that doesn't change that fact that crimes are crimes. Were some of the sentencing guidelines structured in a racist way? Maybe, I've heard people say that and don't have any evidence showing the opposite, but that is a side issue.

Crimes are indeed crimes. The problem is, whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates, but blacks are significantly more likely to be arrested. Based on your comment, it seems like you haven't done much independent reading on this topic... Here's a place to start: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-min...

Thanks for the link, will take a look.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#152
Funnily enough, the UK had this problem about fifteen years ago.

Everyone was wringing their hands madly and talking about things like mentorship, and how the education system was inherently racist (and, unfortunately, always making implications about how white people were all racist and this was a deliberate outcome) or certain groups apparently having no fathers.

Fifteen years later, and black kids are more than twice as likely to go to university as white kids...funnily enough, if you mention race when you talk about this now...you get called a racist (it turns out, some people just really think race is the only thing that matters).

Either way, stop talking about race. It doesn't help. It is incredibly disempowering to have someone supposedly help you by constantly bringing up the fact you are different. And, shock, if you do this and things improve those children never stop banging on about race and think everything is rigged against them (in the UK, there is no black wage gap...if you mention this, you will get excoriated). Definitely, culture does matter (this just has no relation to race though) but if you create an environment of success then this can be overcome.

The US is the archtypical example of how not to do things. Six decades into civil rights, and the same people are still banging on and on about the same stuff (I will get trashed for this but in the US, this kind of grief mongering has almost become an industry in itself...you can see why it will never end, the vested interests are too powerful).

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#153

Though I imagine the prevalence is much higher in black youth, this is a general issue that goes beyond race. A stable upbringing with a family that you can use as role models. If you don't have that, you're in for an uphill struggle. If everyone around you is unemployed, or works in part time unskilled labour - if you're moving from home to home all of the time - if you have no bedroom - if your family argues, or yo…

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#155
post #108

Black community does not have a solid culture and tradition comparing to other immigration minority groups, as other minority groups can succeed in USA without much troubles. I thought about adopting a black boy for a while, I may still do that, I want to help, but don't know how to do it, the gap is just too wide to connect for me somehow.

I think it's fantastic that you have the desire to help.

However, I'd guess it would be best to consider different means of helping for the sake of all concerned.

Maybe you could run a computer club or something for kids at a struggling school? I'm sure they - and you - would learn a lot.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The percentage of African-American children in single-parent homes went from 20% in 1960 to 65% in 2017. Is institutional white racism worse now than it was sixty years ago?

Yes. You know what else happened in that time? The War on Drugs.

I also question the methodology behind those statistics. Many of them only count married parents as not being "single." My father would have counted for my sister, post-divorce, despite being a highly-ranked officer in the military who paid for her college with his GI Bill funds. So would my cousin, who is not married to the mother of his child but who is very much living a traditional domestic life with his partner and daughter.

The demonization and denigration of functional but unorthodox living arrangements is nothing new to American discourse.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#157
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The higher crime rates leading to higher incarceration rates is probably a bigger factor than "white racism". Edit: Making this edit to clarify what I'm trying to say, since several responses has tipped me off to how it could be read. Being black doesn't have anything to do with committing more crimes. Higher crime rates is much more a factor of economic and family status. Both of which are negatively impacted by hig…

Are you implying that a human with black skin is predetermined to commit crime at a higher rate? Or might there be some confounding variables, such as poverty, caused by hundreds/thousands of years of institutional racism?

You're confusing ethnicity with skin color. The common meaning of "black" isn't "dark skin color", it depends on ancestry. For example, Indians aren't considered black, no matter how black their skin. Blacks do have lower IQ than whites on average, and that's correlated with criminality. IQ is partly hereditary. So yes, it's quite likely that a randomly chosen black is predetermined to commit more crime in future than a randomly chosen white. Not because of skin color though, but because of genes.

Hundreds/thousands of years of institutional racism against Jews somehow left them with a low crime rate and high IQs. So it's in no way obvious that such history is a cause of crime. You need more evidence than just the satisfying feeling of blaming somebody.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can argue all we want about how ineffective and/or misguided the War on Drugs has been, but that doesn't change that fact that crimes are crimes. Were some of the sentencing guidelines structured in a racist way? Maybe, I've heard people say that and don't have any evidence showing the opposite, but that is a side issue.

Check out https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/the-shocking-and-sickening-st... if you're curious. The money quote: > "You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understan…

The origins of that quote are dubious. Author Dan Baum claims that Nixon lawyer John Ehrlichman made this confession to him back in 1994, but Dan waited until 2016 to publish it-- long enough that most people in Nixon's inner circle (including Ehrlichman himself) have died and couldn't set the record straight.

However, Pat Buchanan (long time adviser to Nixon) said in an interview that the quote is nonsense.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#159
post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I struggle to buy this line of thinking that, somehow, the epidemic of single-parent (and no parent) households among blacks (or any ethnic or economic group) is the consequence of discriminatory systems or conspiracy or racism. Such systems of discrimination surely aren't more powerful now than when the government was enforcing Jim Crow, when schools were segregated by force, when the Ku Klux Klan was not only active but had active members sitting in Congress, and when academics openly claimed that non-whites were inferior to whites and proposed eugenic 'solutions'. Those horrible blights on American (and Western) society have mostly been buried yet the numbers of black children growing up without a father has exploded. Whatever contribution systemic racism, institutional racism, conscious bias, unconscious bias, etc. (which I concede are real things) have on health of the family unit within black American culture, something else is clearly doing the lion's share of destruction.

Additionally, I'm suspicious when I hear the 'system' being blamed because it's a convenient scapegoat. Stuff like our code didn't work not because our programmers wrote bad software, but because our process is broken. Those FISA warrants that were granted because FBI agents and lawyers lied need to be fixed with 'better safeguards'. Or those banks get taxpayer bailouts and nobody goes to jail because there wasn't sufficient regulation to prevent systematic fraud and excessive risk-taking. Nobody has to be embarrassed for their own behavior or held responsible for their own actions when the nameless, faceless system gets the arrows.

If you want to talk about real privilege, it's the privilege of growing up in a healthy family unit. The greatest advantage I've ever received was a loving father and mother who were there to provide support, instruction, and discipline. All children - everywhere - deserve and desperately need good, loving, present parents. It breaks my heart that's become the exception and not the rule.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The higher crime rates leading to higher incarceration rates is probably a bigger factor than "white racism". Edit: Making this edit to clarify what I'm trying to say, since several responses has tipped me off to how it could be read. Being black doesn't have anything to do with committing more crimes. Higher crime rates is much more a factor of economic and family status. Both of which are negatively impacted by hig…

Where in the logic loop are we?

Mostly the place where everything sucks. It is a nasty self reinforcing problem. See some of my other responses for more context.

Wasn't trying to imply that black people are natural disposed to committing more crimes, just that currently they do, from a combination of economic and social reasons.

Post reply on HN