Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#121

Post by esotericn » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

Though I imagine the prevalence is much higher in black youth, this is a general issue that goes beyond race.

A stable upbringing with a family that you can use as role models. If you don't have that, you're in for an uphill struggle.

If everyone around you is unemployed, or works in part time unskilled labour - if you're moving from home to home all of the time - if you have no bedroom - if your family argues, or you don't have proper food so your blood sugar is all over the place - these are tremendous things to overcome in isolation never mind all at the same time.

People talk about 'privilege' in upbringing because it's actually kind of rare to have a functional family.

This is what the class system really is. Some people can jump the gap after their formative years, but most people are going to be stuck in those patterns if they've spent 20 years in the trenches.

I grew up in a poor family; my father left when I was young. The one thing we had (aside from the absolute warrior-woman of my mother), provided by the government back in the day, was a council house. A low rent secure tenancy. So whilst everything else was a struggle, my mother was able to provide a relatively stable housing situation for us.

Without that I'm sure I would be a complete fuck-up now.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#122

Post by Ma8ee » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

datashow wrote: post #78

jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I just happened to read a story where an Asian was killed while two blacks trying to steal laptop from him https://abc7news.com/5811847 The story mentioned one suspect's sister saying " I have 4 kids and no daddy in their lives ". I simply can't understand this. One kid , I can understand. But four? ... Four (Add: non has daddy present)? I just have too many questions. Add: I interpreted "no daddy in their lives" as…

Woman and man get four kids together. Man dies or dissappears for some other reason. How is that hard to understand? Or did some racial bias make you assume that all the four kids had different fathers?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#123

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

wayoutthere wrote: post #48

maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

There are many, many reasons why this is the case; but they were almost all a product of racist social engineering in the 20th century. And when I say racist, I mean people whose main argument was the genetic inferiority of black people. Progressives consistently caved to their demands under threat of violence. Showing up is hard to do when housing policy explicitly forbids black people from living within a 2 hour co…

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#124

Post by bsanr2 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

Meekro wrote: post #32

maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

'Years ago, I interviewed Kweisi Mfume, then the president of the NAACP. "As between the presence of white racism and the absence of black fathers," I asked, "Which poses the bigger threat to the black community?" Without missing a beat, he said, "The absence of black fathers."' - Larry Elder

On Larry Elder: https://www.gocomics.com/boondocks/2003/11/19

And if you deem it beneath HN's standards to quote a comic strip as a response to another post, well, I would say the same about quoting Larry Elder.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#125

Post by cm2012 » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:00 PM UTC

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #93

tpmx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the incarceration rate for black men (or black fathers) in the typical age where they have children? (I guess ~18-35?) Seems like this stat should be publicly available. Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't imagine it to be more than 15% of this population [and that would be pretty extreme]. If that's the case, how can incarceration be considered a major cause of these fathers "failing from showing up?" (I guess…

I can’t say why users are tying to hide you post. The incarceration rate for blacks is lower than the rate of fathers not being around for their offspring. That’s a fact. Anyone arguing that the entire problem is “we’re just locking up all these otherwise-would-be-there fathers because it’s a fun game to lock blacks up” is ignoring the reality. I don’t have a strong opinion on it either way, but I’ve seen much better…

Except - there is almost no cash welfare system in the US. Pretty much just healthcare and food stamps for the poorest.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#126

Post by datashow » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

Ma8ee wrote: post #122

datashow wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just happened to read a story where an Asian was killed while two blacks trying to steal laptop from him https://abc7news.com/5811847 The story mentioned one suspect's sister saying " I have 4 kids and no daddy in their lives ". I simply can't understand this. One kid , I can understand. But four? ... Four (Add: non has daddy present)? I just have too many questions. Add: I interpreted "no daddy in their lives" as…

Woman and man get four kids together. Man dies or dissappears for some other reason. How is that hard to understand? Or did some racial bias make you assume that all the four kids had different fathers?

I don't know. "no daddy in their lives" makes me interpret differently. I guess.

OK. I just figured out. I interpret "no daddy in their lives" as they never had a daddy present ever. This could be my mistake.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#127

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #93

tpmx wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's the incarceration rate for black men (or black fathers) in the typical age where they have children? (I guess ~18-35?) Seems like this stat should be publicly available. Perhaps I'm naive, but I can't imagine it to be more than 15% of this population [and that would be pretty extreme]. If that's the case, how can incarceration be considered a major cause of these fathers "failing from showing up?" (I guess…

I can’t say why users are tying to hide you post. The incarceration rate for blacks is lower than the rate of fathers not being around for their offspring. That’s a fact. Anyone arguing that the entire problem is “we’re just locking up all these otherwise-would-be-there fathers because it’s a fun game to lock blacks up” is ignoring the reality. I don’t have a strong opinion on it either way, but I’ve seen much better…

[deleted]

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#128

Post by esotericn » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

galangalalgol wrote: post #116

jenkins6g wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed, but as a black man who grew up fatherless be mindful why black fathers are absent. Many times it's not by choice. There were and still are intentional systems in place to make it difficult for fathers to get jobs, stay within the prison system, and have access to quality education. I urge people commenting to ask their black friends for their insights. I came from an inner city and graduated from CMU. The two…

I have a friend who switched worlds in adulthood simply because someone convinced him it was possible to do it. When he describes it, it isn't like it was a pep talk, it was more like someone telling you that you can change your own oil in your car and sends you steps. Part of that is that he was ready to hear it, and was quite smart, but if no one had said anything.

I like the phrase 'switched worlds'.

It's quite apt. I chose to switch worlds when I left school. It really is a complete bifurcation - you can go back, but it's a foreign land now.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#129

Post by JshWright » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:01 PM UTC

zchrykng wrote: post #79

baselined wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The War on Drugs is the cycle of incarceration and racism

We can argue all we want about how ineffective and/or misguided the War on Drugs has been, but that doesn't change that fact that crimes are crimes. Were some of the sentencing guidelines structured in a racist way? Maybe, I've heard people say that and don't have any evidence showing the opposite, but that is a side issue.

Crimes are indeed crimes. The problem is, whites and blacks use drugs at similar rates, but blacks are significantly more likely to be arrested.

Based on your comment, it seems like you haven't done much independent reading on this topic...

Here's a place to start: https://www.vox.com/2014/7/1/5850830/war-on-drugs-racist-min...

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#130

Post by mmsimanga » Sat, Jan 04, 2020, 9:02 PM UTC

I can't read the article seems have suffered HN effect. Speaking as a black man in Africa which is somewhat different to the US I do agree with the title. Africa is different because the first educated generation is my parents generation who are 70+. Off course they are exceptions. My parents who were teachers coming from pure village setup didn't have any mentors. No one explained mortgage to them, they learnt that in school but no uncle, grandparent, cousin or anyone in their circle had ever had a mortgage. It was a new world to them. That generation did well. They lived the village principles, spent a lot of money educating whole villages and taking care of everyone because they the ones who worked. My parents couldn't teach me about money, they don't understand that debt is okay as long as you have a plan to pay it back. In their mind it is a bad idea. I have thus grown up risk averse and it took a long long time to understand how the business world works. Its fine though because you cannot learn these things in one generation. I am generalising but most of my peers don't understand VC funding and startups. My daughter will definitely have a much better understanding of the world as I can pass onto her. These things take generations. Extremely few businesses have been run by African's from one generation to the next. The world is changing, our grandparents were subsistence farmers, our parents were born in villages and still had cows and we were born in cities and towns. A fair number of my generation don't know what to do with a cow and my child's generation are born in town to parents who are professionals as in IT developers, lawyers, accountants and so on.