Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

educationpost.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 406 posts

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#31

Post by lopmotr »

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #10

This gets into a much larger issue of policing intersectioning with darker skinned peoples in the US. When many of the dads are arrested in jail or prison, obviously they aren't being mentors. And they aren't permitted to be in their childrens' lives. And much of this is overpolicing and overcriminialization. Add this to sentences being worse, and it's unsurprising it happens. We as a nation are setting the situation…

Or underpolicing. Blacks are at much higher risk of being the victim of violent crime than whites. Even the boy in the article's brother was murdered. Lack of security means people take it into their own hands and you get violent gangs and/or a harmful honor based society.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#32

Post by Meekro »

maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

'Years ago, I interviewed Kweisi Mfume, then the president of the NAACP. "As between the presence of white racism and the absence of black fathers," I asked, "Which poses the bigger threat to the black community?" Without missing a beat, he said, "The absence of black fathers."' - Larry Elder

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#33

Post by mlyle »

itsallideologyj wrote: post #18
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

There’s a number of studies over the years that show lesbian parents have had raised more emotionally stable, socially successful adults than men. “Fathers” full stop is an argument that agrees with what can be true in our reality. It’s almost as if things we know to be true are often just noises our motor functions generate, and may in fact, upon reflection, be belief not rooted in truth.

I vouched your comment which was dead, but I think it's deliberately obtuse.

I think what people are speaking to is a second involved parent from shortly after birth-- which will most likely be a father/man. A second parental figure makes a world of difference, especially when confronting poverty and an educational environment that does not provide additional support.

> It’s almost as if things we know to be true are often just noises our motor functions generate, and may in fact, upon reflection, be belief not rooted in truth.

There's a whole lot of evidence that children of single parents have significantly worse educational and psychosocial outcomes, even when controlling for household income and other confounds; even when considering whether that parent remarries/a step parent shows up. The degree of involvement of the other parent is strongly predictive of the amount of harm; that is, there's a dose-response relationship.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#34

Post by shantly »

jeffrallen wrote: post #27
shantly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, quite seriously, heartening, as a father, to know that just 1) being there at all, and 2) trying with some amount of thoughtfulness not to screw up your kids, puts you well into the top half of fathers, by quality. You can still mess up constantly, and pretty badly, but remain better than average.

It's not a competition. It's a responsibility.

It's more about perspective, to avoid beating oneself up too much on the bad days. "This sucked, but we're still basically OK, just gotta learn and move on".

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#35

Post by jmull »

brenden2 wrote: post #5

Probably applies to all children, not just those with specific genetic attributes.

Of course that's true. In fact, it's obvious enough that we can be fairly sure the author knows this too.

I could just tell you why I think this article is focused as it is, but I think it will be a lot more useful if I challenge you.

So: why do you think this article is titled and focused as it is on black boys?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#36

Post by grzm »

mlyle wrote: post #33
itsallideologyj wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a number of studies over the years that show lesbian parents have had raised more emotionally stable, socially successful adults than men. “Fathers” full stop is an argument that agrees with what can be true in our reality. It’s almost as if things we know to be true are often just noises our motor functions generate, and may in fact, upon reflection, be belief not rooted in truth.

I vouched your comment which was dead, but I think it's deliberately obtuse. I think what people are speaking to is a second involved parent from shortly after birth-- which will most likely be a father/man. A second parental figure makes a world of difference, especially when confronting poverty and an educational environment that does not provide additional support. > It’s almost as if things we know to be true are…

> "I vouched your comment which was dead, but I think it's deliberately obtuse."

If a comment is dead and you think it's unhelpful ("deliberately obtuse"), don't reward it by vouching for it. It's likely going to generate even more noise. (Note a sibling comment which is is only argumentative, not moving the discussion forward.)

If you have a point to make, make it in a separate comment.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#37

Post by notadev »

itsallideologyj wrote: post #18
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

There’s a number of studies over the years that show lesbian parents have had raised more emotionally stable, socially successful adults than men. “Fathers” full stop is an argument that agrees with what can be true in our reality. It’s almost as if things we know to be true are often just noises our motor functions generate, and may in fact, upon reflection, be belief not rooted in truth.

Then why did you not bother citing a single one?

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#39

Post by CapitalistCartr »

k__ wrote: post #7
maxaf wrote: post #3

Or, you know, fathers. Half of success in fatherhood comes from simply showing up. Absentee fathers contribute to the generational erosion of the family fabric that is almost impossible to undo.

I once read, kids need fathers to learn interaction with people who are not their mother. I think, this is where the "atomic family" breaks down. Only having one person for this job, is simply too high of a risk. We should go back to a bigger type of family, so kids can have more people in their early lifes that fill this role, so when one leaves, there are still many left.

The nuclear family became American dogma after WW2, and it most benefits corporations and a growth economy. Prior to this modern age most people didn't have the resources to move willy-nilly. Even during the Great Migration, people moved in large groups from the Old World to the New, landing in ethnic neighborhoods. Whole villages uprooted. While there are benefits, having no support net (in the USA), has huge downsides. If anything happens to either parent, it's extremely difficult to continue. Having abruptly become a parent last April has been eye-opening. Like bomb blast so.

Re: Black boys don’t need more discipline, they need mentors (2018)

#40

Post by newnewpdro »

jeffrallen wrote: post #27
shantly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, quite seriously, heartening, as a father, to know that just 1) being there at all, and 2) trying with some amount of thoughtfulness not to screw up your kids, puts you well into the top half of fathers, by quality. You can still mess up constantly, and pretty badly, but remain better than average.

It's not a competition. It's a responsibility.

It's a responsibility to prepare your children as best you can to stand on their own in a competitive world.

It's basically just one degree separated from the competition.

Post reply on HN