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Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

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Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#31

Post by function_seven »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #28
solarengineer wrote: post #2

Excerpt: A secretive startup backed by Bill Gates has achieved a solar breakthrough aimed at saving the planet. Heliogen, a clean energy company that emerged from stealth mode on Tuesday, said it has discovered a way to use artificial intelligence and a field of mirrors to reflect so much sunlight that it generates extreme heat above 1,000 degrees Celsius. ===== The article describes a bit about the role the AI is pl…

Why is AI even needed? It’s not like the sun dances around. Could probably find enough information here [0] what is needed. [0] Practical Astronomy with your Calculator https://www.amazon.com/dp/0521356997/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_-v...

The sun might not, but everything else does. The struts supporting these things change with the temperature, the ground swells or settles, the tower may move a bit, etc.

Also, once the AI is written, you can save time on each install by not having to precisely locate each mirror. Get it close enough, and let the magic box fix up the small errors in real time.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#32

Post by jws »

analognoise wrote: post #19

Again, we've been able to do this with four photodiodes for something like 30 years. Of course it worked the first time they turned it on - they were using 4 photodiodes. The "AI" and "computer vision" is just to get funding and hype. I'm going to start taking solved problems and applying BS "AI" to them to get funding, sheesh.

A sun angle sensor is great for pointing at the sun. Heliostats need to bisect a ray to the sun and one to the target. Installation requires somehow setting the angle to the target. Then you immediately become aware of how much the ground heaves throughout the day, so you have to make a foundation that goes well down into the earth. Now you have a $200 heliostat on a $1000 foundation with a $100 calibration operation.

Using $50 of computer and camera to steer instead of photodiodes and analog controller (presumably in a splayed viewport configuration) lets you lose the $1000 foundation and simplify the calibration. It’s no longer a precision operation, just a pointing out the target.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#33

Post by abakker »

Waterluvian wrote: post #23
stinky613 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that would depend on how precisely they need to be calibrated, right? IIRC even military GPS is still only accurate to within a few feet.

RTK GPS is 1cm RMS. And I still can't get over how awesome it is. It's magic.

It’s 1cm in altitude! In lat long, it can be better. It really is awesome.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#34

Post by function_seven »

bullen wrote: post #21

Cement requires 1450 degrees Celsius, this solar raid manages 1000+!? how are you going to boil heavy lime and clay up on that 10 meter high tower? Everything Bill Gates has ever done (or financed) has been stolen, a fraud or both. Edit: Whoa, heavy bias towards Mr Gates, a surprise dear HN community. I'm using my karma to learn! ;)

Pre-warming your materials to 1,000˚C will save a lot of fuel, no? Now the gas furnace just needs to add a few hundred more degrees to the inputs.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#35

Post by jws »

bullen wrote: post #21

Cement requires 1450 degrees Celsius, this solar raid manages 1000+!? how are you going to boil heavy lime and clay up on that 10 meter high tower? Everything Bill Gates has ever done (or financed) has been stolen, a fraud or both. Edit: Whoa, heavy bias towards Mr Gates, a surprise dear HN community. I'm using my karma to learn! ;)

A reply into oblivion… but generally you would circulate molten sodium through the system to transfer heat to ground level where you do work and have storage tanks for hot sodium when the sun isn’t shining.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#36

Post by anonuser123456 »

analognoise wrote: post #19

Again, we've been able to do this with four photodiodes for something like 30 years. Of course it worked the first time they turned it on - they were using 4 photodiodes. The "AI" and "computer vision" is just to get funding and hype. I'm going to start taking solved problems and applying BS "AI" to them to get funding, sheesh.

I somehow doubt Gates gets fooled by hype. Do you think he just stumbled his way to success? Maybe there is a little more complexity to the problem than you anticipate.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#37

Post by lkbm »

bullen wrote: post #21

Cement requires 1450 degrees Celsius, this solar raid manages 1000+!? how are you going to boil heavy lime and clay up on that 10 meter high tower? Everything Bill Gates has ever done (or financed) has been stolen, a fraud or both. Edit: Whoa, heavy bias towards Mr Gates, a surprise dear HN community. I'm using my karma to learn! ;)

Being downvoted for an unsubstantiated blanket claim like that doesn't even begin to suggest a bias. The only way such a comment wouldn't be downvoted would be if there were a widespread bias against the person in question.

Pick a random person. If you posted this exact statement about them, would you expect to be downvoted? Personally, I'd downvote it regardless of who it was.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#38

Post by analognoise »

jws wrote: post #32
analognoise wrote: post #19

Again, we've been able to do this with four photodiodes for something like 30 years. Of course it worked the first time they turned it on - they were using 4 photodiodes. The "AI" and "computer vision" is just to get funding and hype. I'm going to start taking solved problems and applying BS "AI" to them to get funding, sheesh.

A sun angle sensor is great for pointing at the sun. Heliostats need to bisect a ray to the sun and one to the target. Installation requires somehow setting the angle to the target. Then you immediately become aware of how much the ground heaves throughout the day, so you have to make a foundation that goes well down into the earth. Now you have a $200 heliostat on a $1000 foundation with a $100 calibration operation…

No, with the photodiodes you can still steer the mirrors. The mirror part doesn't change. Nothing about the installation changes, except you throw out the "AI" and "computer vision" hype.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#39

Post by analognoise »

anonuser123456 wrote: post #36
analognoise wrote: post #19

Again, we've been able to do this with four photodiodes for something like 30 years. Of course it worked the first time they turned it on - they were using 4 photodiodes. The "AI" and "computer vision" is just to get funding and hype. I'm going to start taking solved problems and applying BS "AI" to them to get funding, sheesh.

I somehow doubt Gates gets fooled by hype. Do you think he just stumbled his way to success? Maybe there is a little more complexity to the problem than you anticipate.

There isn't.

"Bill Gates is smart, therefore he can't be fooled or wrong" is not a strong argument.

Re: Heliogen, backed by Gates, says it has achieved a solar breakthrough

#40

Post by agumonkey »

analognoise wrote: post #39
anonuser123456 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I somehow doubt Gates gets fooled by hype. Do you think he just stumbled his way to success? Maybe there is a little more complexity to the problem than you anticipate.

There isn't. "Bill Gates is smart, therefore he can't be fooled or wrong" is not a strong argument.

Actually being smart would be leveraging all the hype for maximum coverage, granted the actual product has actual value/benefits.
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