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Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

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Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#71

Back when I worked at Boeing they had the AOG (Airplane On Ground) crew to do this sort of thing. Their job was to be on call 24/7 and do whatever it took to get that airplane back in the air, and they pretty much had a blank check to do it. Naturally, they were the best mechanics Boeing had. An airplane makes money only when it is flying. When it is sitting on the ground, it loses money at a prodigious rate. A large…

I’m not surprised Microsoft has a standby team, given how bad their software is

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#72
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might get some of the backstory halfway off, but my grandfather was in Alaska during WWII for the construction of the Alaska Highway. They tried to never turn off truck and equipment engines because if you did, you had to build a fire under them to get them warm enough to start again.

My family was stationed near London for a time. My father told me later that once an airline pilot mistook a WW2 strip for the Heathrow runway (!) and landed there, using every inch of it to get it to stop. The strip was too short to take off from, so what to do? They stripped everything off the airplane they could. Seats, interiors, galleys, everything. They put in just enough fuel to hop over the trees to Heathrow.…

I'm trying to google a similar "we landed here but now it's too short for us to takeoff again" story which IIRC happened in California, but I can only find this incident that happened with a cargo plane in Kansas: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/11/giganti...

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#74

I was wondering why didn't the crew elect to divert directly to Anchorage, reading the event description http://avherald.com/h?article=49f44548 it seems they were 2h from CDB and ANC would be another hour from there. Not sure what's the ETOPS rating of that aircraft but it might not have been 180min (though even longer times are common now)

If you're down to one engine, you opt for the nearest safe haven, independent of how long you're rated to fly on one engine. You don't tempt fate.

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#75
post #17

Back when I worked at Boeing they had the AOG (Airplane On Ground) crew to do this sort of thing. Their job was to be on call 24/7 and do whatever it took to get that airplane back in the air, and they pretty much had a blank check to do it. Naturally, they were the best mechanics Boeing had. An airplane makes money only when it is flying. When it is sitting on the ground, it loses money at a prodigious rate. A large…

"Prodigious Rate" -- To put this in context, the latest numbers I saw is about $125 per min of unscheduled delay. It also doesn't take that many delays to wipe profitability to zero.

A plane sitting on the ground costs revenue.

The highest revenue per hour route is JFK to Heathrow at $24,639 [1]. A 787-800 costs about $8000/hr [2]. So that's about $277/min of revenue. Yeah, $125/min sounds about right for an average route.

[1] https://www.planestats.com/bhsw_2014sep

[2] https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1398091

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#76
You know, behind these on-the-surface feel-good / oh-that's-cool stories is generally a less positive tale of deferred maintenance and poor choices by AA (and other airlines) that leads to this kind of rescue flight being necessary.

The article was from 2016, and the question you want to be asking is, "how often should a 2 year old 787 be having engine issues requiring unplanned diversion?" and is AA's maintenance regime causing them to encounter these situations more than is expected?

What you will generally find is that because of labor costs in the US, and the thin maintenance margins that our carriers are incentivized to follow (partly also because penalties for stranding passengers is quite low), these kinds of diversions are more frequent than other airlines operating better-maintained long-haul routes.

Things are always breaking on airplanes. How much proactive maintenance is conducted is up to the airline, and determines how much builds up before 1 out of many issues on the minimum equipment list rises enough to ground the aircraft. It's quite an active decision for an airline, actually. In this case, AA maintenance probably made a decision (under all the other constraints they face) to fly the 787 to Shanghai (where they don't have a full maintenance depot) with some marginally performing or slightly-overdue-for-recommended-replacement engine part. And then on the return the strategy backfired.

Consider that when you wonder, "is it just me, or why does airline X seem to have so many more delays and aircraft swaps than others?"

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#77

Back when I worked at Boeing they had the AOG (Airplane On Ground) crew to do this sort of thing. Their job was to be on call 24/7 and do whatever it took to get that airplane back in the air, and they pretty much had a blank check to do it. Naturally, they were the best mechanics Boeing had. An airplane makes money only when it is flying. When it is sitting on the ground, it loses money at a prodigious rate. A large…

"Naturally, they were the best mechanics Boeing had."

I know people who do this kind of work, but are they really the best? - As long you hold a screwdriver in your hand, you are No.2 in salary. - Family, your child has birthday, something to show you in school or sport? Forget it, 5 minutes before it starts, you get always a call. So you have no family (anymore). - 9 to 5 nah.. more like 9 plus 5 hours to work a day. - Friends, forget it you don't have any. But of course they have storys to tell. But why would you choose a such life?

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#78
post #73

If you enjoyed this story, you might enjoy the story of a seaplane having to get back to LaGuardia from New Zealand the day after Pearl Harbor: https://medium.com/s/story/the-long-way-round-the-plane-that...

What an absolutely incredible story!

https://www.amazon.com/The-Long-Way-Home-Revised-ebook/dp/B0...

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#79

You know, behind these on-the-surface feel-good / oh-that's-cool stories is generally a less positive tale of deferred maintenance and poor choices by AA (and other airlines) that leads to this kind of rescue flight being necessary. The article was from 2016, and the question you want to be asking is, "how often should a 2 year old 787 be having engine issues requiring unplanned diversion?" and is AA's maintenance re…

You got a source for any of this?

Re: Getting a 787 back in the air after a diversion

#80

I was wondering why didn't the crew elect to divert directly to Anchorage, reading the event description http://avherald.com/h?article=49f44548 it seems they were 2h from CDB and ANC would be another hour from there. Not sure what's the ETOPS rating of that aircraft but it might not have been 180min (though even longer times are common now)

If you're down to one engine, you opt for the nearest safe haven, independent of how long you're rated to fly on one engine. You don't tempt fate.

Not necessarily the nearest if you have a couple of airports at approximately the same distance, but in this situation I guess it makes sense to land ASAP and CDB is ok.

Some emergency situations will have the plane fly back to its origin even if there are closer airports (source: have been in one), some others will have you land at the closest airport period even if might not be 100% suitable.

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