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A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

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Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#141
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lambdas by nature do exactly that. AWS’s runtime launches the “VMs” in response to an event. And with webhooks I’m required to keep enough server capacity running all of the time to handle the events. Can a web hook automatically instantiate enough VMs on demand without reducing throughput?

"Can a web hook automatically instantiate enough VMs on demand without reducing throughput?" Yes, there are various cgi-bin implementations with horizontal auto-scaling.

Across multiple servers or do you still have to provision your server to handle peak load?

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#142
post #138

I’ve been working on a small side project that involves processing incoming email. In particular, it’s an app that needs to do something for each email it receives from (hopefully paying!) users. I am not interested in storing user mail, so SES is just too costly, at least according to a quick worst-case calculation. That leaves me with two options: 1. Self-hosted Postfix 2. Mail service like Mailgun With (1), there…

Mailgun would seem cheaper than this.

I use Postfix/dovecot to self host.

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So was “running in the cloud” just a buzzword? Serverless is not just “managed hosting” in the cgi-bin since - serverless implies there is no server to manage and it’s for all intents and purposes “infinitely scalable”. For instance, Amazon’s hosted versions of Mysql, Postgres, Sql Server, etc are not what they consider “Serverless” you still have to size it appropriately and if your needs increase, have to move to a…

> So was “running in the cloud” just a buzzword? Please don't digress. The questions regarding you assertions on "serverless" don't change or are addressed with your attempt to divert attentions to other buzzwords. > Serverless is not just “managed hosting” in the cgi-bin since - serverless implies there is no server to manage and it’s for all intents and purposes “infinitely scalable”. You're running in circles by t…

There is no “overreaching area”. Amazon Aurora falls under RDS along with all of their other database offerings.

No one on HN would accept an argument that technology is “confusing” that the poster didn’t take time to learn unless it involves AWS.

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#144

I don't know anything about serverless --- to this day I fail to understand what this word is even supposed to mean. And the deployment diagram[1] sure looks complicated to me. I think I prefer old-school servers. [1]: " rel="nofollow">https://raw.githubusercontent.com/0x4447/0x4447-product-s3-e...

Yeah, it's a really dumb term. > Serverless computing is a cloud-computing execution model in which the cloud provider runs the server ...so, there is a server? What's with the name, then?

I don't get the faux-naivety over the term "serverless". Most modern cars have "keyless" unlocking and ignition, yet.. you still need a key present. You just don't have to think about or manipulate the key. Serverless is much the same.

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#145
post #131

Just a friendly reminder, since I've worked with SES in the past: Don't forget about bounces when using SES [0]. From [0]: > If your bounce rate is 5% or greater, we'll place your account under review. To sum it up, try to keep track of bounced e-mails by using the SES notifications [1]. [0] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/e-faq.... [1] https://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/monit…

We accidentally had ses credentials set up on our QA server and quickly got banned for sending too many sdf@sdf.com emails. Took quite some time to get it unbanned. Since then we switched to Mailgun for email delivery but ses is still useful for processing incoming email via Lambda

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As if the time to manage servers is free. I work in projects which make heavy use of function-as-a-service, and I have first-hand accounts of how FaaS offerings have lead developers to waste a couple of weeks getting FaaS to do what could have been done in a couple of hours with a tried-and-true web service. > But lambda is far from expensive. Relatively to the cost of a VM instance? Yes, it's expensive. We're in a…

Let me give you another example. We have a Jenkins server for builds. Most of the time, you push code and the build starts immediately. However, at times we have 10 builds in the queue and you’re sitting there waiting for your small build behind larger builds. On the other hand, we’ve started moving to CodeBuild “Serverless builds”. When we aren’t running builds, we aren’t paying for it. However when crunch time come…

You either completely missed the point or you are too invested in going off on a tangent to try to change the subject.

The $100 vs $10 was not intended to argument the merit of $10 savings: it refutes the absurd claim that $100 expenditures justifies adopting a convoluted architecture, because the fact is not adopting a convoluted architecture is actually much cheaper.

Additionally, somehow you've brushed aside the fact that the main cost is developer time, and a convoluted solution based on flavor-of-the-month tech fads requires more maintenance and developer man-hours than basic tried-and-true solutions like standard run-of-the-mill web services.

> How much would it cost to have build servers that could handle peak demand and how much of a waste would it be to have that server sitting idle?

I honestly fail to see what point you're trying to make because: a) you don't need "serverless" services such as AWS lambdas to get CICD pipelines to work, and b) cluster autoscaling is a basic offering provided by pretty much all major cloud providers. Thus, what's your point?

> As far as it taking “two or three weeks” - “its a poor craftsmen who blames his tools”.

So any proof that refutes your baseless assertions is brushed aside by your "you're holding it wrong" baseless assertion? Doesn't sound like a discussion on technical merits.

You're underlining the biggest problem with buzzword-driven development: the lack of technical merit is a constant and everything boils down to petty personal politics.

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#147
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cgi-bin didn’t have any type of process isolation. Also, it didn’t tie in to other none web based events.

>cgi-bin didn’t have any type of process isolation "Lambdas" don't by nature either. I can run cgi-bin in a FirecrackerVM-like ecosystem with one script per VM. >Also, it didn’t tie in to other none web based events. Webhooks aren't new. I'm not disputing the popularity and convenience of serverless. I'm just noting it's somewhat like Docker. Packaging existing tech in an easier-to-use bundle.

How much “easier” of a bundle is a Zip file? But there is also Serverless Docker - Fargate.

And you still have to provision and pay for the VM for peak load.

Lambdas do have process isolation.

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So was “running in the cloud” just a buzzword? Please don't digress. The questions regarding you assertions on "serverless" don't change or are addressed with your attempt to divert attentions to other buzzwords. > Serverless is not just “managed hosting” in the cgi-bin since - serverless implies there is no server to manage and it’s for all intents and purposes “infinitely scalable”. You're running in circles by t…

There is no “overreaching area”. Amazon Aurora falls under RDS along with all of their other database offerings. No one on HN would accept an argument that technology is “confusing” that the poster didn’t take time to learn unless it involves AWS.

> There is no “overreaching area”. Amazon Aurora falls under RDS along with all of their other database offerings.

You mean AWS Aurora serverless?

https://aws.amazon.com/rds/aurora/serverless/

You're underlining the failing of buzzword-driven development.

> No one on HN would accept an argument that technology is “confusing”

Good. No one other than yourself ever made the mistake of doing so. If you have a hard time arguing the facts then refrain from making up fiction.

Re: A serverless email server on AWS using S3 and SES

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me give you another example. We have a Jenkins server for builds. Most of the time, you push code and the build starts immediately. However, at times we have 10 builds in the queue and you’re sitting there waiting for your small build behind larger builds. On the other hand, we’ve started moving to CodeBuild “Serverless builds”. When we aren’t running builds, we aren’t paying for it. However when crunch time come…

You either completely missed the point or you are too invested in going off on a tangent to try to change the subject. The $100 vs $10 was not intended to argument the merit of $10 savings: it refutes the absurd claim that $100 expenditures justifies adopting a convoluted architecture, because the fact is not adopting a convoluted architecture is actually much cheaper. Additionally, somehow you've brushed aside the f…

Your “proof” is an anecdote that was easily disproven by a link.

If it takes your developers two weeks to host an API in a Lambda when I showed you a link on how simple it is. It says more about your developers than AWS.

My time is far from cheap and any time that we can spend letting someone else do the grunt work is valuable.

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