Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When good ideas make bad business

tjcx.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 361 posts

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#211

Post by ericmcer »

omegaworks wrote: post #187
wayoutthere wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a business standpoint, saving lives can actually be expensive. The longer someone lives, the more healthcare they consume. Health insurance companies are very aware of this, which is why they so frequently deny coverage for various life-saving cancer treatments. If you die while waiting for treatment, not only do they save the cost of the treatment, but also the entire cost of ongoing screening / care during rem…

This is precisely why we need universal healthcare. The incentive structure of private markets don't properly value human life.

At least in the above scenario the hospital has a financial incentive to treat you (part of why we perform loads of unnecessary surgeries in this country).

I’m for a public system I just think it is very difficult to do correctly, and if we go into it with idealism instead of extreme pessimism we will fail to secure it against those who prey on exploiting public money.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#212

Post by Androider »

eightysixfour wrote: post #174
mwilcox wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He should obviously be selling to clinics / hospitals Plus when did the 'we don't have any budget' excuse stop a SaaS company? That's what you raise VC for - build the product, hand it to the customer for 'free' and charge them what it was really worth based on their usage when you threaten to take it away

Or he should try selling it to CVS as a in-the-store tool for OTC products, where his original need came from in the first place.

CVS doesn't care if you buy Tylenol or Advil or which one works better, and makes no additional money depending on your choice of product. In fact, the brands pay CVS for the privilege of being featured on an eye-level shelf vs at the bottom.

I think it was a great article. Like it said: To succeed, an offering must create value for all entities involved in the exchange—target customers, the company, and its collaborators. And value is literally measured in dollars, so you're either saving or making money for someone, otherwise it's just a fun project.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#213

Post by avip »

omegaworks wrote: post #187
wayoutthere wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a business standpoint, saving lives can actually be expensive. The longer someone lives, the more healthcare they consume. Health insurance companies are very aware of this, which is why they so frequently deny coverage for various life-saving cancer treatments. If you die while waiting for treatment, not only do they save the cost of the treatment, but also the entire cost of ongoing screening / care during rem…

This is precisely why we need universal healthcare. The incentive structure of private markets don't properly value human life.

You will be facing same financial dilemmas with public healthcare. But it may be more transparent.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#214

Post by pgsbathhouse »

planetzero wrote: post #209
omegaworks wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely why we need universal healthcare. The incentive structure of private markets don't properly value human life.

"This is precisely why we need universal healthcare. The incentive structure of private markets don't properly value human life." Government-run healthcare isn't a panacea that will 'value human life' any more than the insurance companies. You are still a number in a database somewhere. Most new drugs come out of the US and socialized governments create generics at a fraction of the cost, because they don't have to p…

>Most new drugs come out of the US and socialized governments create generics at a fraction of the cost, because they don't have to put any money into R&D.

This is a completely false right-wing talking point. It takes 10 minutes to uncover how just totally bullshit this is.

Don't ever repeat again or anything remotely like it (aka the rest of your post).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK50972/

https://other98.com/taxpayers-fund-pharma-research-developme...

The government never sees a return in any form on the money taxpayers put forth. But private companies do. Just waiting like vultures to snag whatever makes it through the proof of concept phase and claim credit.

>I can't think of anything that the government runs better than the private sector.

ISP's? Roads? Social services? Schools? Emergency Services?

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#215

Post by wayoutthere »

planetzero wrote: post #209
omegaworks wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is precisely why we need universal healthcare. The incentive structure of private markets don't properly value human life.

"This is precisely why we need universal healthcare. The incentive structure of private markets don't properly value human life." Government-run healthcare isn't a panacea that will 'value human life' any more than the insurance companies. You are still a number in a database somewhere. Most new drugs come out of the US and socialized governments create generics at a fraction of the cost, because they don't have to p…

> The US is the back-bone of the medical system for the rest of the world and also has the best medical schools and best quality hospitals (the majority of people with money come to the US for life-saving surgeries..this has to tell you something).

This just means American consumers end up subsidizing health care R&D costs for the rest of the globe — purely because our government prevents us from collectively bargaining the way pretty much every other country does.

The people coming to the US for the “best quality” are generally going to doctors / surgeons in private practice, most of whom do not take insurance and can see you immediately. There is an almost entirely separate (and much higher quality) medical system available to those who can afford it. The system the rest of us belong to ranks right behind Morocco and Costa Rica in terms of outcomes (not joking — this is according to the WHO). We come in dead last among “first world” countries.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#216

Post by cardine »

johnchristopher wrote: post #33

That was really great writing, though :-). But this part: > “And that isn’t worth something? Prescribing better treatments?” > “Hmmmm,” she said, picking at her fingernails. “Not directly. Of course I always have the best interests of my patients in mind, but, you know, it’s not like they’ll pay more if I prescribe Lexapro instead of Zoloft. They won’t come back more often or refer more friends. So I’d sorta just be,…

The solution is to educate the patients so that they demand this sort of data driven analysis from their doctors.

If such a product existed I would use it continually and challenge my doctors when they contradict it. If patients aren't educated and care, health professionals won't care enough to purchase it.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#217

Post by macspoofing »

amitmathew wrote: post #166

I think people are being a little too hard on the author. Startups in healthcare are hard . Been there, done that, have the t-shirt (literally, that's all that left). I even made the same fatal mistake - not identifying who the buyer really is. And when I say identifying the buyer, I don't mean it in that hand-wavey, vague way like "doctors" or "insurance companies". The starting point has to be something like "ophth…

>I think people are being a little too hard on the author. Startups in healthcare are hard.

They are hard, but this case isn't really healthcare-related. He tried pitching his product to practices without showing how it could increase their revenue, or decrease their costs. Without that, his product is just another cost-center with some marginal (and ambiguous) healthcare benefits.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#218

Post by victor106 »

wayoutthere wrote: post #178
amitmathew wrote: post #166

I think people are being a little too hard on the author. Startups in healthcare are hard . Been there, done that, have the t-shirt (literally, that's all that left). I even made the same fatal mistake - not identifying who the buyer really is. And when I say identifying the buyer, I don't mean it in that hand-wavey, vague way like "doctors" or "insurance companies". The starting point has to be something like "ophth…

From a business standpoint, saving lives can actually be expensive. The longer someone lives, the more healthcare they consume. Health insurance companies are very aware of this, which is why they so frequently deny coverage for various life-saving cancer treatments. If you die while waiting for treatment, not only do they save the cost of the treatment, but also the entire cost of ongoing screening / care during rem…

The longer you live the more monthly premiums you pay, so ideally they do want you to live, but they don't want you to use any healthcare services (or use less services) while you live.

Re: When good ideas make bad business

#219

Post by conanbatt »

rjkennedy98 wrote: post #66
leggomylibro wrote: post #9

Oof. The site was practically named after WebMD, and the founder didn't do any market research on that competitor to gauge how viable the business was before quitting their job? This person probably should have known that their main competitor made $0.50/user before they quit their job. Also: >It had been a bit of a working assumption of mine over the past few weeks that if you could improve the health of the patient…

That line stood out to me also. Anyone who feels that the primary goal of healthcare in the US is to improve health outcomes is incredibly naive about how this industry (which is over 20% of the us economy) works. There is only one group in the entire industry which has an incentive to keep people healthy (insurance) and that is the most hated of the bunch!

> There is only one group in the entire industry which has an incentive to keep people healthy (insurance) and that is the most hated of the bunch!

A testament that the demand for healthcare services is not only about health results. Albeit there are grave challenges about the way Kaiser or HMO's have supposedly better health results.

Post reply on HN