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How strong is your knot?

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Re: How strong is your knot?

#71

Post by senderista »

peterwwillis wrote: post #58
slowhand09 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been using bowlines for safety(fire dept) and sailing 35yrs. Never ever ever seen a proper bowline "shake loose". Can tie it weakside one-handed, upside down, behind my back, in the dark, underwater, while brushing my teeth.

It's the "proper" part that's the problem. Even the Yosemite finish is problematic. Google for "deaths from climbing with bowline" and you'll find lots of veteran climbers who have died or been seriously injured from their bowline coming undone, either because they did it messily and it capsized, or they screwed it up and didn't realize it until they took a fall.

Yup, that's why climbers replaced it with the figure-eight loop decades ago. Which is a bitch to untie after loading, but at least it won't self-upset.

Re: How strong is your knot?

#72

Post by duelingjello »

alister wrote: post #65

I have a knot problem that I think pretty much everyone has encountered. How do you tie a bundle of branches or a cardboard box or something compressible as tightly as possible? The first way everyone tries is to cross the rope like you would for shoelaces, then putting pressure on the crossed rope with your finger, and trying to cross the ends of the rope with your one free hand to finish the knot. Inevitably the kn…

A constrictor knot like a boa knot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boa_knot

Re: How strong is your knot?

#73

Post by knot_knots »

kajecounterhack wrote: post #52

For standard knots the Klutz book of knots is really excellent! https://www.amazon.com/Klutz-Book-Knots-John-Cassidy/dp/0932... The article doesn't mention fishing knots; in case anyone's curious anglers care a lot about knot strength but strength changes based on whether you lubricated the knot when tying and what kind of line you used to tie it (braid vs smooth fluorocarbon for example). My favorite fishing knot is…

Joining two lines, (of the same or different diameters) is very much of interest in climbing, and these knots often do "collapse." The simplest/most common knot used for this purpose is even named for fishing- the double fisherman's knot.

It is used for joining the ends of a cordelette, combining ropes for rappelling or ascending, or in a single ended version, backing up (collapsing on) a knot used to tie in to the rope, such as a figure-eight follow through or bowline.

I think you will find that equal to your desire to debate which is the strongest knot is the desire of a climber to not have to think about it- when 100 feet off the deck and on thin footing.

Re: How strong is your knot?

#74

Post by Intermernet »

alister wrote: post #65

I have a knot problem that I think pretty much everyone has encountered. How do you tie a bundle of branches or a cardboard box or something compressible as tightly as possible? The first way everyone tries is to cross the rope like you would for shoelaces, then putting pressure on the crossed rope with your finger, and trying to cross the ends of the rope with your one free hand to finish the knot. Inevitably the kn…

If you tie an alpine butterfly somewhere in the rope, and then pass the other end through it, you can achieve a 2:1 pulley system in the rope. This greatly increases the compression of the lashing. Hard to explain, but you're basically using a fixed loop in the line as a pulley to increase the force applied.

Re: How strong is your knot?

#75

Post by strstr »

dilyevsky wrote: post #59
dragontamer wrote: post #16

My list of favorite knots: 1. Square Knot / Reef Knot -- This is the shoelace tie, and its one of the simplest knots. Learn this knot backwards and forwards you'll use it a lot. Avoid the granny knot (a mistaken reef knot). Beginners will often tie the granny knot instead of the square knot. If you can do a square knot, the "Surgeon Knot" is a useful variant which is more secure. 2. Figure Eight -- Superior to the ov…

2. False. (Double) overhand aka euro death knot is superior for joining two ends of rappel line due to its smaller profile - lower probably of getting jammed on pull

Knots getting stuck is super annoying (and potentially life threatening) on rappel.

Re: How strong is your knot?

#76

Post by dmca »

dilyevsky wrote: post #59
dragontamer wrote: post #16

My list of favorite knots: 1. Square Knot / Reef Knot -- This is the shoelace tie, and its one of the simplest knots. Learn this knot backwards and forwards you'll use it a lot. Avoid the granny knot (a mistaken reef knot). Beginners will often tie the granny knot instead of the square knot. If you can do a square knot, the "Surgeon Knot" is a useful variant which is more secure. 2. Figure Eight -- Superior to the ov…

2. False. (Double) overhand aka euro death knot is superior for joining two ends of rappel line due to its smaller profile - lower probably of getting jammed on pull

In addition, it is generally believed to be less liable to rolling off the ends than the flat figure-of-eight bend (not to be confused with the standard figure-of-eight bend/flemish bend)

Re: How strong is your knot?

#77

Post by KirinDave »

dilyevsky wrote: post #59
dragontamer wrote: post #16

My list of favorite knots: 1. Square Knot / Reef Knot -- This is the shoelace tie, and its one of the simplest knots. Learn this knot backwards and forwards you'll use it a lot. Avoid the granny knot (a mistaken reef knot). Beginners will often tie the granny knot instead of the square knot. If you can do a square knot, the "Surgeon Knot" is a useful variant which is more secure. 2. Figure Eight -- Superior to the ov…

2. False. (Double) overhand aka euro death knot is superior for joining two ends of rappel line due to its smaller profile - lower probably of getting jammed on pull

Don't solo overhand knots significantly weaken the cord they're tied into?

Re: How strong is your knot?

#78

Post by dilyevsky »

KirinDave wrote: post #77
dilyevsky wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2. False. (Double) overhand aka euro death knot is superior for joining two ends of rappel line due to its smaller profile - lower probably of getting jammed on pull

Don't solo overhand knots significantly weaken the cord they're tied into?

It’s two lines and also forces are very small on rappels

Re: How strong is your knot?

#79

Post by dilyevsky »

dmca wrote: post #76
dilyevsky wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2. False. (Double) overhand aka euro death knot is superior for joining two ends of rappel line due to its smaller profile - lower probably of getting jammed on pull

In addition, it is generally believed to be less liable to rolling off the ends than the flat figure-of-eight bend (not to be confused with the standard figure-of-eight bend/flemish bend)

Yeah but edk rolls too, that’s why you need to leave a foot long ends at least

Re: How strong is your knot?

#80

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

kaiwen1 wrote: post #38
dragontamer wrote: post #16

My list of favorite knots: 1. Square Knot / Reef Knot -- This is the shoelace tie, and its one of the simplest knots. Learn this knot backwards and forwards you'll use it a lot. Avoid the granny knot (a mistaken reef knot). Beginners will often tie the granny knot instead of the square knot. If you can do a square knot, the "Surgeon Knot" is a useful variant which is more secure. 2. Figure Eight -- Superior to the ov…

Other than aesthetics (and perhaps as a hobby) are there circumstances in which cable lacing would be preferable to cable ties?

You might find these interesting:

Cable lacing on the Curiosity rover: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4472312

The Lost Art of Lacing Cable (2018): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20582844

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