Live data from Hacker News

Philosophy as a public service

nautil.us

51–60 of 99 posts

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#51
post #48
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A few articles?" This is what discoverability looks like on both of those sites: https://plato.stanford.edu/contents.html . Just start at "A"? I think non-academic people like me are served perfectly well by reading Spinoza's Ethics. Googling for more from there will cover almost all of post-dualism Western phil.

yeah encyclopedias don't provide any guidance. Wikipedia actually does a pretty good job of this. They have a section on the side bar for "Influences" (who influenced this philosopher and "Influenced" (who this philosopher influenced.) Aristotle has this epic entry: Influences: Plato Influenced: Virtually all subsequent Western philosophy, Christian philosophy and pre-Enlightenment science (see List of writers influe…

Did your professor point to Whitehead’s original quote?

“So far as concerns philosophy only a selected group can be explicitly mentioned. There is no point in endeavouring to force the interpretations of divergent philosophers into a vague agreement. What is important is that the scheme of interpretation here adopted can claim for each of its main positions the express authority of one, or the other, of some supreme master of thought - Plato, Aristotle, Descartes, Locke, Hume, Kant. But ultimately nothing rests on authority; the final court of appeal is intrinsic reasonableness. The safest general characterization of the European philosophical tradition is that it consists of a series of footnotes to Plato. I do not mean the systematic scheme of thought which scholars have doubtfully extracted from his writings. I allude to the wealth of general ideas scattered through them. His personal endowments, his wide opportunities for experience at a great period of civilization, his inheritance of an intellectual tradition not yet stiffened by excessive systematization, have made his writing an inexhaustible mine of suggestion.”

https://www.age-of-the-sage.org/philosophy/footnotes_plato.h...

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is an art. Science is an art. Even "pure mathematics" can be artful and beautiful. There is beauty in all the miracle of the application of human creation, thought, and skill. There is beauty in process, in discovery, of discovery, etc. And this is all so beautifully meta as well, because this too, is a philosophical statement.

Yes it's beautifully meta. This happens because everything that exists and doesn't exist including philosophy itself falls under the purview of philosophy. It's the ultimate definition given to a word. Now imagine this brain twisting concept: The Philosophy of "The Philosophy of philosophy." Yes discussions about philosophy are in itself philosophy and that by induction causes an infinite chain to form where you can…

Not sure what happened in the 2nd half of your post, it kind of went off the rails. But the in the 1st half, you're basically getting at the ordinal numbers. Now just drop the "philosophy" from it (which is just a placeholder, since you could replace it with anything else whatsoever and still get the same chains) and focus on the underlying structure---infinite chains of infinite chains, etc.---and you're actually standing on the threshold of some very interesting material. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_number

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#53

If you want to really understand philosophy, start with Pythagoras, the man coined the term Philosophy and Cosmos -- and conducted the first attested scientific experiment in history. His legacy, through Plato, was resurrected as a key element of the Renaissance and Enlightenment. It makes modern philosophy look like a sad farce since this legacy of modern thought probably isn't taught in a single modern philosophy c…

I have never understood this thing about being asked to study old texts in Philosophy. In no other field that I have studied have people suggested that my first introduction to the field must be a book written decades ago, forget two millennia ago. If I want to study physics, nobody tells me to read Newton or Einstein's paper. Instead I should read an introductory textbook, whose contents and presentation are much better than the original texts.

If you are telling me that in the twenty centuries, no one has taken what Pythagoras/Plato said and has rewritten it in a better way, with modern exposition and examples and graphics and what not, I fail to believe you. Because that would mean philosophy as a discipline is not improving by building upon the works of those past, unlike every other intellectual discipline. I know this is not true, so stop suggesting old texts to beginners and start suggesting books written in the last twenty years.

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#54
post #4

I don't see how this has anything to do with philosophy, thought experiments as such arent't philosophical, some philosophy (mostly anglosphere) just uses them to draw conclusions from common sense intuitions. This kind of 'philosophy' has been a public service for as long as art exists which often draws from concepts of science and philosophy and presents it in a easily digestible form to common sense.

I have a degree in philosophy, and I agree with you. I don't see what this article has to do with philosophy as it's understood academically, and I'm also pretty unsure what the (rather self-aggrandizing) title (the site uses the title Philosophy Is a Public Service) has to do with the contents, since there's very little there to defend that claim or even talking about philosophy's role in the public sphere at all.

A more apt title would be "How I Developed Several Public Art Projects".

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#55

Relatedly, if anyone is looking to get started with philosophy, Crash Course has a fantastic video series on it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNgK6MZucdY...

If you just have ears, History of Philosophy without any gaps is great podcast: https://historyofphilosophy.net/. Great and thorough companion when I do the dishes.

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#56

Relatedly, if anyone is looking to get started with philosophy, Crash Course has a fantastic video series on it: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtNgK6MZucdY...

I hate to be a downer, but there are good reasons[0] to avoid getting your starting ideas from the Crash Course series of videos. I think a better approach would be either to (1) start actually reading Descartes or Plato, or (2) use the Crash Course video titles as to what you should be looking up on SEP. Similarly, a lot of introductory text on many important philosophers is off the mark; Peter Singer's Marx in the "Short Introduction to" series is known to be pretty poor, for example.

Please try and rely on expert resources, and not just people who are experts in some other area, or even sometimes in another area of philosophy. Experts on philosophy are just as capable as anyone else skilled in an area to explain ideas without too much jargon (or if there is, explanations of it!)

Some philosophers you can start reading primary material. For others it's more difficult. University textbooks should also be worth considering, at least. But the Crash Course videos may be the wrong approach. If you're looking for videos, I'd recommend Wireless Philosophy pretty much always.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/4de95h/why_d...

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#57
This article isn't about philosophy, it's about science. The author is making scientific claims and advocating scientific methods of measurement. If the scientific claims the author is making are false, or even if the error involved in the measurements is significantly larger than he believes it is, his entire scheme falls apart.

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#58

If you want to really understand philosophy, start with Pythagoras, the man coined the term Philosophy and Cosmos -- and conducted the first attested scientific experiment in history. His legacy, through Plato, was resurrected as a key element of the Renaissance and Enlightenment. It makes modern philosophy look like a sad farce since this legacy of modern thought probably isn't taught in a single modern philosophy c…

I have never understood this thing about being asked to study old texts in Philosophy. In no other field that I have studied have people suggested that my first introduction to the field must be a book written decades ago, forget two millennia ago. If I want to study physics, nobody tells me to read Newton or Einstein's paper. Instead I should read an introductory textbook, whose contents and presentation are much be…

>In no other field that I have studied have people suggested that my first introduction to the field must be a book written decades ago, forget two millennia ago.

No other field is philosophy. Philosophy, in some respects, is special - at least according to Socrates as relayed by Plato. As Socrates says, each science (or even activity) has its object, but what of the science which has science as its object? The trouble with many future reformulations of key ideas is that they can miss the intricacies and highly abstract arguments of the original texts. For that reason, it may be more appropriate to read Newton than it is to read Einstein, because Newton used much more natural language than equations. I would very heavily disagree with the idea that introductory textbooks necessarily have better contents and presentation than original texts, and any serious philosopher will tell you that too.

>If you are telling me that in the twenty centuries, no one has taken what Pythagoras/Plato said and has rewritten it in a better way, with modern exposition and examples and graphics and what not, I fail to believe you.

What do you mean by "a better way"? Is Plato really so difficult or obtuse or obscure that one needs to express Socrates' ideas in "a better way"? The text is perfectly readable to a modern audience, which is precisely why starting with Plato's actual dialogues is the hallmark of any good university philosophy programme.

>Because that would mean philosophy as a discipline is not improving by building upon the works of those past

No; you have it backwards. Many philosophers have agreed with or disagreed with Plato, but the point of a text on Plato's ideas should represent what he wanted to represent in those ideas, not say "well, that's what Plato said, here's my idea now!". Philosophy (according to some accounts, at least) does progress, but it's dubious that rewriting and "simplifying" texts is the hallmark of progress.

You end with the assumption that books written since 2000 are necessarily better than Plato. I fail to see why this is the case. If you want an overview of philosophy since Plato, then by all means, only the most up-to-date book will do. If you want to know Plato's (or Socrates') ideas yourself, there is no better source than Plato himself.

Philosophy explanations and short introductions (Peter Singer's one on Marx comes to mind) are riddled with errors, and for any such text you will find at least ten philosophers ready to lambast an "introductory" interpretation because it misses out on the intricacies of that thought. I'm not joking. Look at any intro book on Hegel, Kant, Marx, Pythagoras. Then look at the reviews published in philosophy journals.

"Progress" in philosophy does not and cannot mean shortening, rewriting and "simplifying" ideas.

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If my "modern philosophy course" you mean a course dealing with only modern philosophy, then of course not: they're not seeking to delve into the ancient history, but deal with whatever era is on the docket. That's not the point of the course. But philosophy majors at many universities do have to deal with that as well. It just isn't the focus of a course in modern or contemporary phil. But as for courses dealing wit…

But the point of learning about Pythagoreanism isn't to learn ancient history. It is to learn philosophy. And if pythagoreanism-platonism is the most influential thread of philosophy of all time, then modern philosophy would need to obviate that legacy (like modern chemistry obviates ancient chemistry), integrate it, or simply remain ignorant of it.

>But the point of learning about Pythagoreanism isn't to learn ancient history. It is to learn philosophy.

The two, at least according to Hegel, are not so easily separable.

"The more the ordinary mind takes the opposition between true and false to be fixed, the more is it accustomed to expect either agreement or contradiction with a given philosophical system, and only to see reason for the one or the other in any explanatory statement concerning such a system. It does not conceive the diversity of philosophical systems as the progressive evolution of truth; rather, it sees only contradiction in that variety. The bud disappears when the blossom breaks through, and we might say that the former is refuted by the latter; in the same way when the fruit comes, the blossom may be explained to be a false form of the plant’s existence, for the fruit appears as its true nature in place of the blossom. These stages are not merely differentiated; they supplant one another as being incompatible with one another. But the ceaseless activity of their own inherent nature makes them at the same time moments of an organic unity, where they not merely do not contradict one another, but where one is as necessary as the other; and this equal necessity of all moments constitutes alone and thereby the life of the whole."

Re: Philosophy as a public service

#60
When I was in college, my friends/housemates and I took out an ad in the yellow pages under 'Philosophers'. We were 'Murvanowski & Associates, Philosophers at Large'. Each of us specialized in a philosophy, spanning Realism, Epicureanism, Daoism and of course, Hedonism.

Every couple of weeks, we'd get a call from a student who had stumbled on us when trying to reach the Pharmacy, while simultaneously struggling with their Philosophy course. We liked to think we did provide a valuable public service.

Post reply on HN