Comparing bankers to the people who carried out the Holocaust is a bit of a reach.
The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
11–20 of 36 posts
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#12Doesn't this all just come down to the fact that lambs think eagles are evil and eagles think lambs are tasty?
I don't understand what it means to "all just come down to" a metaphor. Metaphors are inherently high level and abstract - the very opposite of what things "come down to", which is used to describe a concrete, pragmatic causation. The specific metaphor also is unhelpful, as it throws away the uniquely human nature of both morality and freedom of choice.
Aaron suggests that is childish to think evil people do evil things intentionality. But isn't actually the notion of good and evil completely childish? Arnt bankers just predators and their victims just prey? The banker isn't even thinking "I'm good" they are just thinking "I'm hungry"
Realistically adults don't think about the morality of their actions much at all.
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#13Doesn't this all just come down to the fact that lambs think eagles are evil and eagles think lambs are tasty?
Yes and no. Lambs and eagles do not think, at least not like humans. Evil and taste are not thoughts for them, they are experiences. However evil and taste have their own existence in the human mind, separate from experience. And that's why humans can be manipulated by thoughts only, not just by experience.
Who in their right mind wants to send their offsprings to butchery in war? It can only happen if you first create meaning and justify the war (e.g. a clear danger worse than war) if you expect people to follow.
So the real issue here is how easy it is to manipulate humans, to make them act like robots programmed by mainstream media so eager to show us a danger and the difference between "us" and "them".
This does not mean there is no intentionality though. Is it really a coincidence if some weapon manufacturers invest in media companies? Is it a coincidence if the same source of finance feed both sides of a conflict?
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#14The world we live in is a super complex ecosystem of geopolitical, historical and cultural relationships and differences.
To make sense of this complex world we create simplified narratives for ourselves, whether through movies or daily new broadcasts, whatever. Its easier to think in terms of good guys vs bad guys but in reality there are no good guys and bad guys. As the article says "Nobody thinks they’re doing evil". Ones freedom fighter is another ones terrorist.
We're pretty much all capable of being charitable/thoughtful while at the same time regurgitate a false narrative to advance our political opinions/careers or perform self serving interests or even criminal behaviour.
Humans self righteous beings.
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#15If we can be unintentionally evil, could we be unintentionally good too?
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#16The world we live in is a super complex ecosystem of geopolitical, historical and cultural relationships and differences. To make sense of this complex world we create simplified narratives for ourselves, whether through movies or daily new broadcasts, whatever. Its easier to think in terms of good guys vs bad guys but in reality there are no good guys and bad guys. As the article says "Nobody thinks they’re doing ev…
There are many people who intentionally choose to act purely selfishly and not in good faith, to maximize personal gain. I met many of these types in SV, and I imagine they get much worse on wall street and in military industrial circles. Call it what you will, but these people don't have any illusions of being benevolent or fair.
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand what it means to "all just come down to" a metaphor. Metaphors are inherently high level and abstract - the very opposite of what things "come down to", which is used to describe a concrete, pragmatic causation. The specific metaphor also is unhelpful, as it throws away the uniquely human nature of both morality and freedom of choice.
Aaron suggests that is childish to think evil people do evil things intentionality. But isn't actually the notion of good and evil completely childish? Arnt bankers just predators and their victims just prey? The banker isn't even thinking "I'm good" they are just thinking "I'm hungry" Realistically adults don't think about the morality of their actions much at all.
In a pyramidal society it all depends where you stand. Most people function from a partial narrative, biased towards some local/invented optimum. The higher you go in the pyramid, the more conscious evil you can find. And usually you can only go high in the pyramid because you have proven yourself capable of evil.
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand what it means to "all just come down to" a metaphor. Metaphors are inherently high level and abstract - the very opposite of what things "come down to", which is used to describe a concrete, pragmatic causation. The specific metaphor also is unhelpful, as it throws away the uniquely human nature of both morality and freedom of choice.
Aaron suggests that is childish to think evil people do evil things intentionality. But isn't actually the notion of good and evil completely childish? Arnt bankers just predators and their victims just prey? The banker isn't even thinking "I'm good" they are just thinking "I'm hungry" Realistically adults don't think about the morality of their actions much at all.
> Realistically adults don't think about the morality of their actions much at all.
If you're basing this on personal experience then either you or I are atypical because I think of the morality of my actions all the time (and sometimes makes judgement calls which are different to social norms).
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#19If we can be unintentionally evil, could we be unintentionally good too?
That is basically Adam Smith's (and consequently almost every pro-market economist) thesis. Actually his thesis is that on average the answer is "yes".
If it's true or false is a matter of intense debate, to say the least
Re: The Intentionality of Evil (2005)
#20> ... Nobody thinks they’re doing evil — maybe because it’s just impossible to be intentionally evil, maybe because it’s easier and more effective to convince yourself you’re good — but every major villain had some justification to explain why what they were doing was good. Everybody thinks they’re good.
Could it be that the root of evil lies in failure to recognize this universal truth? In other words, the prerequisite for evil deeds is to convince oneself that monstrous evil exists in the world that the ends justify the means when dealing with it?