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On Privacy versus Freedom

matrix.org

31–40 of 209 posts

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#31
One frustrating thing about Moxie's original post is that Signal derives huge amounts of value by piggybacking on an existing distributed federated network: the phone system. If phone numbers weren't an existing working identifiers that people had regardless of what OS, carrier, or messaging app, Signal as designed wouldn't work.

People should think harder about how to replicate that experience, instead of how to appropriate it and then abandon it.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#32

Email is flawed and will become a one way protocol to receive spam, newsletters and invoices just like paper mail. I think Matrix is our second chance to build a secure federated communication suite. So far it's going in the right direction...

> Email is flawed and will become a one way protocol to receive spam, newsletters and invoices just like paper mail. I don't recall the last time I've received spam in my email inbox among the tens of emails I've receive daily, and newsletters/invoices are messages that users intend to subscribe. You might argue that instant messaging scratches an itch that email doesn't, but that's a bit shortsighted and doesn't mak…

Newsletters and other BS notifications are the new spam.

Sure, you can technically opt-out and keep your inbox clean by spending 5 minutes opting out of the garbage every time you sign up to a new service, but that’s irrelevant considering nobody does this and most of my friends’ mailboxes are pretty much unusable because this kind of spam arrives every minute and they have tens of thousands of unread emails in their inbox.

However, in this case I’m not sure Matrix or any other service would be the solution. If the service is neutral and doesn’t impose policies on the content then scum like marketers will just move to it. On the other hand actually having “acceptable use policies” would require centralisation and bring its own problems to the table.

The real solution here is regulation, not technology.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#33
post #23
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://signal.org/blog/license-update/

Aha, yeah: https://github.com/signalapp/curve25519-java/issues/5

It sounds like he addressed the point you raised (App Stores) even though he'd prefer to keep it GPL so changes are required to be shared.

What's the objection?

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#34
post #24
post #14

When i asked if i could use his libraries in ios/android apps Moxie refused. He licensed them under GPL that prohibits distributing of software via app stores. Quite a strange for a guy who claim that he wants to spread encryption. Sure, but only on your own platform. Fastforward he sold such rights for a whatsapp. Just simple business, nothing about privacy itself.

Can you explain how GPL prohibits distribution via app stores?

I think Apple bans strong copyleft licenses somehow, by having store requirements that aren't compatible with them. I'm not sure about details.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#35
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell you how they do it, but Telegram is lightning fast with push notifications across all kinds of devices, including Android. Been rocking it as my primary messenger for years. Whenever a few of us are sitting around in real life, and someone sends something to a group chat, all the phones on the table will buzz instantly together (iOS and Android). And on top of that, battery usage is really low on Android…

Telegram is GPL, I think it would be worth it to see how they use it, because it honestly is absolutely incredible.

Telegram server is closed.

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#36
post #25

I saw Moxie Marlinspike's talk when it was posted on CCC's official channel [1] and was disgusted by it. The talk has been now censored and video was made private. It was one of the most defeatist talks I've ever come across when it comes to messaging and privacy. His message was basically that anything you do is pointless and that his and WhatsApp/Facebook's way is the right one. I've used Signal on few occasions in…

I don't particularly like a centralized model either. Federation is much more difficult, but can create ecosystems which can survive longer/better than a single company can.

But on the specific issue of phone numbers as ID, they have been making some substantial progress on a technological solution to address this, specifically without running central servers.

https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#37
post #24
post #14

When i asked if i could use his libraries in ios/android apps Moxie refused. He licensed them under GPL that prohibits distributing of software via app stores. Quite a strange for a guy who claim that he wants to spread encryption. Sure, but only on your own platform. Fastforward he sold such rights for a whatsapp. Just simple business, nothing about privacy itself.

Can you explain how GPL prohibits distribution via app stores?

According to the FSF, the App Store is incompatible with the GPL because its Terms of Service restricts what people can do with the apps they download: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/licensing/more-about-the-app-store...

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#38
post #25

I saw Moxie Marlinspike's talk when it was posted on CCC's official channel [1] and was disgusted by it. The talk has been now censored and video was made private. It was one of the most defeatist talks I've ever come across when it comes to messaging and privacy. His message was basically that anything you do is pointless and that his and WhatsApp/Facebook's way is the right one. I've used Signal on few occasions in…

[deleted]

Re: On Privacy versus Freedom

#39
post #24
post #14

When i asked if i could use his libraries in ios/android apps Moxie refused. He licensed them under GPL that prohibits distributing of software via app stores. Quite a strange for a guy who claim that he wants to spread encryption. Sure, but only on your own platform. Fastforward he sold such rights for a whatsapp. Just simple business, nothing about privacy itself.

Can you explain how GPL prohibits distribution via app stores?

Some people argue that the GPL2's clause

"You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein."

is violated because you need to agree to additional terms from Apple to use the apps.

https://www.fsf.org/news/2010-05-app-store-compliance

In this case however, the code is under the GPLv3, which is far more problematic. It contains a "anti-tivoization" clause, which says you cannot require any "methods, procedures, authorization keys, or other information required to install and execute modified versions"

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