> Moxie didn’t want the 36C3 talk recorded Curious why. Anyway it's there: https://peertube.co.uk/videos/watch/12be5396-2a25-4ec8-a92a-...
Here's his reasoning: https://twitter.com/moxie/status/1211443530335281153
On Privacy versus Freedom
21–30 of 209 posts
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#22Moxie / signal chooses pragmatism over purity, and is striving towards improve the status quo bit by bit vs a pure perfect solution that never ships, even though that improvement has it's own vital problems.
You can see it in his choices, and you can see how they want to eventually deliver improvements like no phone numbers, with them working on things like secure value recovery.
I kind of wish he spelled it out fully for the nit picky peanut gallery out there, so he can just reference it instead of wasting energy on them. You can just feel the exasperation when you read his writing and see him speak about this.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#23When i asked if i could use his libraries in ios/android apps Moxie refused. He licensed them under GPL that prohibits distributing of software via app stores. Quite a strange for a guy who claim that he wants to spread encryption. Sure, but only on your own platform. Fastforward he sold such rights for a whatsapp. Just simple business, nothing about privacy itself.
https://signal.org/blog/license-update/
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#24When i asked if i could use his libraries in ios/android apps Moxie refused. He licensed them under GPL that prohibits distributing of software via app stores. Quite a strange for a guy who claim that he wants to spread encryption. Sure, but only on your own platform. Fastforward he sold such rights for a whatsapp. Just simple business, nothing about privacy itself.
Can you explain how GPL prohibits distribution via app stores?
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#25I saw Moxie Marlinspike's talk when it was posted on CCC's official channel [1] and was disgusted by it. The talk has been now censored and video was made private. It was one of the most defeatist talks I've ever come across when it comes to messaging and privacy. His message was basically that anything you do is pointless and that his and WhatsApp/Facebook's way is the right one.
I've used Signal on few occasions in the past but his talk made me uninstall it. I simply do not trust him after hearing his opinions. I do not support centralization and other ideals he's now pushing (including the use of a phone number as Signal's primary ID).
The talk was mirrored on few channels on YT [2] and you can still see it.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdM-XTRyC9c (it's a private video now)
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3YFprqAr8 (working link, who knows for how long so mirror it).
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#26[deleted]
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#27Moxie / signal chooses pragmatism over purity, and is striving towards improve the status quo bit by bit vs a pure perfect solution that never ships, even though that improvement has it's own vital problems. You can see it in his choices, and you can see how they want to eventually deliver improvements like no phone numbers, with them working on things like secure value recovery. I kind of wish he spelled it out full…
I'd argue that Matrix also chooses pragmatism over purity - the balance is more that we prioritise freedom as well as privacy.
Signal's whole mantra of "only implement features which are privacy preserving" is a great mentality. It's just a shame it comes at the expense of locking down the platform.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#28Email is flawed and will become a one way protocol to receive spam, newsletters and invoices just like paper mail. I think Matrix is our second chance to build a secure federated communication suite. So far it's going in the right direction...
> Email is flawed and will become a one way protocol to receive spam, newsletters and invoices just like paper mail.
I don't recall the last time I've received spam in my email inbox among the tens of emails I've receive daily, and newsletters/invoices are messages that users intend to subscribe. You might argue that instant messaging scratches an itch that email doesn't, but that's a bit shortsighted and doesn't make a case on why email is flawed.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#29> The ecosystem is moving
It has been "moving" from the times of Compuserve and AOL trying to prevent e-mail federation. Good thing they failed then! Kudos to Matrix for pushing against such movement in IMs. Someone has to push against it, instead of looking for excuses to proliferate walled gardens.
> If users don’t trust their app provider, they can always go switch apps, which gives them freedom.
Sounds like Moxie meant it's a downside. It's a huge benefit! Forcing one to use something that's not trusted is horrendous.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#30When i asked if i could use his libraries in ios/android apps Moxie refused. He licensed them under GPL that prohibits distributing of software via app stores. Quite a strange for a guy who claim that he wants to spread encryption. Sure, but only on your own platform. Fastforward he sold such rights for a whatsapp. Just simple business, nothing about privacy itself.
Can you explain how GPL prohibits distribution via app stores?
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