On Privacy versus Freedom
matrix.org
On Privacy versus Freedom
1–10 of 209 posts
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#2I think the timing makes Moxie's point very well without him saying a thing.
All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then. Some of the most basic stuff is, you believe, almost kinda sorta done.
This is, to be clear, much better than just sitting back insisting you were right but not lifting a finger. But for an actual user who needed privacy and security any time between then and now - and for future users who need it between now and whenever you get this stuff working in the real world, it was Signal that delivered. Moxie was right so far.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#3Email is flawed and will become a one way protocol to receive spam, newsletters and invoices just like paper mail.
I think Matrix is our second chance to build a secure federated communication suite. So far it's going in the right direction...
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#4I think the timing makes Moxie's point very well without him saying a thing. All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then. Some of the most basic stuff is, you believe, almost kinda sorta done. This is, to be clear, much better than just sitting back insisting you were right but not lifting a finger. But for an actual user…
>All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then.
E2E on Matrix works, plus key verification is easier than on Signal. Managing metadata is hard, but my Matrix homeserver doesn't have my phone number (unlike Signal) and does not require Google Cloud Messaging. I can even run it on a PinePhone or Pocket CHIP!
>But for an actual user who needed privacy and security any time between then and now - and for future users who need it between now and whenever you get this stuff working in the real world, it was Signal that delivered. Moxie was right so far.
Tell that to the people getting imprisoned due to Signal's metadata leaks: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21747424
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#5I think the timing makes Moxie's point very well without him saying a thing. All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then. Some of the most basic stuff is, you believe, almost kinda sorta done. This is, to be clear, much better than just sitting back insisting you were right but not lifting a finger. But for an actual user…
> Some of the most basic stuff is, you believe, almost kinda sorta done.
The core Matrix stuff has been usable for years, and in many ways you've had better metadata and censorship protection available than Signal - given you have the option of running your own server which could be entirely off the grid, and used only for your own conversations.
However, if your point is that Matrix focuses on freedom as well as privacy (rather than privacy at the expense of freedom), then we're agreed :D
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#6I think the timing makes Moxie's point very well without him saying a thing. All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then. Some of the most basic stuff is, you believe, almost kinda sorta done. This is, to be clear, much better than just sitting back insisting you were right but not lifting a finger. But for an actual user…
Building monoliths (like Signal) is easy and that's a core take-away point of Matthew's response in the blog post. Building Matrix is not and has not ever been a small task, but the effort gives us the freedom to run our own services and still be able to talk with our friends. Matrix is the "long game".
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#7I think the timing makes Moxie's point very well without him saying a thing. All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then. Some of the most basic stuff is, you believe, almost kinda sorta done. This is, to be clear, much better than just sitting back insisting you were right but not lifting a finger. But for an actual user…
>All these years later Matrix only has... The ambition to some day try to offer the core privacy features Signal already delivered back then. E2E on Matrix works, plus key verification is easier than on Signal. Managing metadata is hard, but my Matrix homeserver doesn't have my phone number (unlike Signal) and does not require Google Cloud Messaging. I can even run it on a PinePhone or Pocket CHIP! >But for an actual…
> Tell that to the people getting imprisoned due to Signal's metadata leaks
Isn't this rather Twitter's metadata leaks in your source?
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#8I won't touch signal because I care about user freedom more than privacy. (Both are important)
No 3rd party clients, mandatory updates, mandatory google play services, and mobile only are all deal breakers.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#9I won't touch signal because I care about user freedom more than privacy. (Both are important) No 3rd party clients, mandatory updates, mandatory google play services, and mobile only are all deal breakers.
> mandatory google play services
Note that since a while there is also the possibility of using web sockets. But they are an extreme battery drain, and thus google services are quasi-mandatory. Telegram solves this without being a battery drain, possibly at the cost of delivering messages with a delay, but why isn't that my choice.
Re: On Privacy versus Freedom
#10Nice essay, Matthew, thanks!
I'll stay with XMPP until they take it from my cold, dead hands.