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What Will Happen in the 2020s

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Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#601

Post by biolurker1 »

6nf wrote: post #304
pascalxus wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the only way #6 will come true is if the replacement for meat looks, smells and tastes exactly like the real thing and it'll have to be cheaper too. People all over the world love meat, especially US, UK and the Chinese. I've tried to convince some family members to reduce their meat consumption even a tiniest amount gets a huge amount of resistance. People aren't going to give up their meat: they may not even b…

Faced with a choice between beef or fake beef that tastes exactly the same, most people will just go for the real beef. They don't want the highly processed fake stuff that contains who knows what. The only way beef loses is if the alternatives are significantly cheaper. If a McBeef is $5 more than a McFakeBeef then you got a shot at converting people.

Time to Google "lab grown meat"

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#602

Post by lwhi »

D_Alex wrote: post #536
gordaco wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I was thinking mostly about beef. Which seems to be the most environmentally impactful meat, by the way. Pork is less impactful and poultry is even less. Obligatory wikipedia link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_p...

>...beef... the most environmentally impactful meat... Pork is less impactful and poultry is even less This is largely because pork is raised in factory-farming conditions that are awful for the animals, and poultry even more so. Environmental "benefits" are countered by animal welfare drawbacks. Here is a good analysis, you need to scroll around a bit to find pork and poultry info: https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/12…

I think impact is largely based on lifespan required to rear the animals.

Beef is more carbon intensive, because it takes longer to raise beef cattle (and therefore more resources to feed).

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#603

Post by tluyben2 »

pascalxus wrote: post #272
opportune wrote: post #236

I don’t really buy into 4-6. I don’t see any benefit for a country to turn its currency into a crypto asset. Either they are relinquishing a great deal of control in democratizing their financial system (also exposing themselves to attack), or it’s a crypto in name only that doesn’t seem any better than digital cash through banks except for a buzzword. Decentralization is hit or miss. You get economies of scale with…

Yes, the only way #6 will come true is if the replacement for meat looks, smells and tastes exactly like the real thing and it'll have to be cheaper too. People all over the world love meat, especially US, UK and the Chinese. I've tried to convince some family members to reduce their meat consumption even a tiniest amount gets a huge amount of resistance. People aren't going to give up their meat: they may not even b…

> People aren't going to give up their meat: they may not even be willing to try alternatives.

That's the problem; they will say it's not the same even if it is 100% the same. I bake a lot of pizzas for friends and I tend to do real sausage and Beyond sausage and have people taste. I tell them upfront that some are real and some are fake meat but not which are which. Yesterday I did almost 50 pizzas on a hangover party (it's a hobby...) and the most 'angry' meat eaters taste fake when it's real, real when it's fake, but once they think that they have the fake one (even though it was the real one), they simply leave it. And that I really don't understand. Little disclaimer about tasting: I don't load my pizza's up with that 'meatlover' amount of (fake or real) meat. I like subtle tastes, so there won't be a lot of sausage on a pizza.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#604

Post by tluyben2 »

SllX wrote: post #356
gordaco wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are being downvoted, but I think that you are totally right. For an awful lot of people, eating meat is a matter of status; it's similar to why many people prefer having big cars even if they are less environmentally friendly. There is also the fact that plant based diets are still associated to certain ideologies and because of that they will keep being scoffed at by people from opposing ideologies. Sure, you do…

As someone who isn’t considering giving up my ways, red blooded meat eating American that I am, I actually appreciate vegans to some degree. As long as there are an appreciable number of them, I will enjoy a greater variety of dishes and ingredients available to me, and oftentimes fresher ingredients too. Insofar as they are making choices that benefit them, they also make choices that benefit me. Where they lose me,…

There are so many nice dishes that don't have or need meat. I think a large thing is that people don't experiment much with their food. I have to travel a lot for work and especially in Asia and Africa, there are tons of dishes which are easy to make but very rich in flavour and much more 'refined' (in my opinion) than having a slab of meat on my plate. I sometimes think I want a steak, but after 2 bites I start thinking how much better that would've been 1/3 of it in an Indian curry (which of course is blasphemy but I'm not religious or from India) or in a thai curry dish. And once you properly make it into a dish which is one melange of integrated tastes, the 'real meat' thing becomes far less pressing. Same with meat in potato oven dishes, Lasagna or Pizza => unless you are into those overkill hard tastes (which I personally don't like), you can learn to cook them without meat while they still have the texture and taste for (open minded) meat eaters.

A slab of meat like steak will be many years before that comes from a lab for a decent price. But worked into a nice curry or some usages for sausages etc, I say we are close or even there already.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#605

Post by tluyben2 »

opportune wrote: post #236

I don’t really buy into 4-6. I don’t see any benefit for a country to turn its currency into a crypto asset. Either they are relinquishing a great deal of control in democratizing their financial system (also exposing themselves to attack), or it’s a crypto in name only that doesn’t seem any better than digital cash through banks except for a buzzword. Decentralization is hit or miss. You get economies of scale with…

I do hope for #5 and there are countries currently planning (not sure how serious, but we've been in tenders) for #4.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#606

Post by brlewis »

earenndil wrote: post #571
brlewis wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Each point alone requires a long rebuttal that no one would read I'd like to sell you a solution for that. Brief bullet points like the one you made are readable, but when people disagree you need hypertext links to your supporting arguments. I made a web app for creating such trees of arguments. Here's an example in which you'll see I think the dangers of nuclear waste are debatable: https://en.howtruthful.com/o/n…

Reminds me of arguman https://en.arguman.org/

Yeah, there's definitely a resemblance, also a resemblance to kialo. Notice how arguman had to temporarily shut down due to bot accounts. This is a major reason why howtruthful requires payment to be used socially. https://en.arguman.org/blog/new-user-registration-disabled-s...

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#607

Post by prawn »

6nf wrote: post #432
jka wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even within a much smaller price margin, there'd still be plenty of reasons to make kill-free meat the default preference. Abattoir and meat-processing facilities might not be able to achieve the same quality bar for hygiene as lab-developed meat cultures. That should ultimately translate into better food safety for consumers. There are also strong ethical and environmental arguments for choosing kill-free meat as op…

Hey if they can develop lab-meat cultures with the same(ish) makeup of real meat then yes I'd love that stuff. If I can get the same product but without suffering of animals then I'm 100% on board. What I don't like is this current crop of fake meat. I don't know what it's made of and I don't want to eat something with a list of ingredients as long as my arm pretending to be something else.

When you say that you don't know what it's made of, is that because you haven't actually looked it up? The Impossible Foods site goes into solid detail on what goes into their product, more than you'd find on other commonly ingested products like ice cream or whatever where the website is purely an appeal to taste buds. Many of us would be eating daily a variety of things with long lists of ingredients.

What if that long list is the cost of trying to engineer an alternative to something that evolved over millions of years? Why would that matter?

(Typical meat eater here, but interested in trying lab meat sometime.)

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#608

Post by mistermann »

bsder wrote: post #540
mistermann wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many patterns have been observed in nature, until an exception occurs that breaks the pattern.

This pattern has, sadly, been pretty reliable over more than 2000 years. In addition, Li Xinping has shown very little enlightenment toward those who would oppose him irrespective of their correctness. This is always the first step down a long dark path.

Could you convert "pretty reliable" into a percentage?

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#609

Post by collyw »

6nf wrote: post #304
pascalxus wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the only way #6 will come true is if the replacement for meat looks, smells and tastes exactly like the real thing and it'll have to be cheaper too. People all over the world love meat, especially US, UK and the Chinese. I've tried to convince some family members to reduce their meat consumption even a tiniest amount gets a huge amount of resistance. People aren't going to give up their meat: they may not even b…

Faced with a choice between beef or fake beef that tastes exactly the same, most people will just go for the real beef. They don't want the highly processed fake stuff that contains who knows what. The only way beef loses is if the alternatives are significantly cheaper. If a McBeef is $5 more than a McFakeBeef then you got a shot at converting people.

> Faced with a choice between beef or fake beef that tastes exactly the same, most people will just go for the real beef.

How can you say that with certainty? There isn't any fake beef that tastes similar that I am aware of.

Re: What Will Happen in the 2020s

#610

Post by zaphirplane »

rhinoceraptor wrote: post #543
yesenadam wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How tall will my children grow up to be on a plant based diet? I want my children to grow up to be stronger than those around them. Well, oxen manage to be strong as an ox on a 100% plant-based diet. Giraffes get pretty tall too.

Lions, sharks and polar bears are also very strong, on a carnivorous diet. What does that says about human nutrition? Absolutely nothing.

How about gorillas they are 4-9 times stronger than a human on a vegetarian diet (some termites and ants) and they are pretty close to humans genes wise
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