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Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

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Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#121

Post by lucideer »

TomMarius wrote: post #98
yason wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

I am not sure what you mean with this effectiveness. I live in Prague, the city with (what they say) one of the best public transport systems in the world, and yet, going to my workplace is 45 minutes by public transport and 15 minutes by car. Even though I live close to a subway and tram station, and the workplace is right in the city center, car still wins - where is the effectiveness you're talking about? This is…

There's multiple issues with your anecdote (one of course it being an anecdote, not a statistic); to focus on the main ones:

- you're looking at individual efficiency rather than system: in particular the fact that public transport is made less efficient by people driving. You're describing a chicken-egg problem if you want improvements in public transport

- you're focused on time as a metric, not accounting for economic cost (both individual and municipal: car infra is expensive), and other costs (health, env)

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#123

Post by keymone »

TomMarius wrote: post #98
yason wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them You have to think what pedestrian lights are for. They exist solely to improve the flow of car traffic. Pedestrian lights are in gross contrast to the rights and benefits of pedestrians. Without lights, pedestrians would always have first priority on a crosswalk. Cars would have to stop for any pedestrian crossing the street. However, drivers (of inefficient but…

I am not sure what you mean with this effectiveness. I live in Prague, the city with (what they say) one of the best public transport systems in the world, and yet, going to my workplace is 45 minutes by public transport and 15 minutes by car. Even though I live close to a subway and tram station, and the workplace is right in the city center, car still wins - where is the effectiveness you're talking about? This is…

public transport and cars often share the same medium, it's almost always impossible to improve public transport without impairing life of car drivers and be accused of car hating.

also public transport is not there to help you shave off minutes from commute time, it's there for those who don't have the option of going by car.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#124

Post by scotty79 »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #103
Reason077 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

”in the UK in any intersection with traffic lights the pedestrians will never have a green light at the same time as cars.” 3-phase signalled intersections (where pedestrians get a green signal to cross in all directions) are a relatively new development in the UK. They’re certainly common in London but I’d be very surprised if they’re rolled out to all intersections the UK.

I don't think that was the point they were making. They were saying that, here in the UK, if the light is green for you as a pedestrian, there is a guarantee - legally enforceable - that traffic cannot cross your path. Unlike in, say, many other European cities and - ime - ny city.

Worst thing for pedestrians and cyclist is "turn right on red" rule.

If you want to turn right (in right handed flow) you can enter intersection on red (in Poland when additional green right arrow is lit up) but you have to yield to everybody, also pedestrians (that have green at the time).

In theory you are required to stop before you enter on red but most drivers don't and some don't even slow down more than is physically required to make a turn.

So if a cyclist or a pedestrian appears in path of such car unexpectedly (because there might be high vehicle waiting for green on the next lane) it is a dangerous situation.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#125

Post by ehnto »

raverbashing wrote: post #100
jMyles wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, let me stop abruptly for the pedestrian crossing right in front of me. Or in some situations pedestrians are always crossing (city-center) This is the price you pay for deciding to drive a car in a city. If you choose a less lethal (to others) form of transportation, you'll have to yield less frequently. The general principle of yielding downward (in terms of size of the conveyance) is hundreds, perhaps thous…

The problem is not yielding, the problem is yielding with too short of a notice to people who think cars have zero inertia. Physics doesn't care who's right or wrong. Edit: I'm not talking about crosswalks, I'm talking about people crossing outside of them

If it's so dangerous, maybe we should get the cars out of the places where people are walking around a lot. Since the primary purpose of a city is for people to get business and life done, and not to move cars from one side of it to the other.

People should be able to cross outside of crosswalks, because the cars should be driving fast somewhere else, or driving at a safe speed in the city. That safe speed is far, far slower than I expect Americans or Australians are comfortable with. We are talking walking pace or slower.

The benefit of slowing cars down that much in a CBD is it makes it very obvious and intuitive that cars are the lower priority in the CBD. It makes it so cumbersome to drive through city areas that it is self regulating as people stop driving their cars through unless they absolutely must.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#126

Post by mbeex »

amedvednikov wrote: post #63

Amazing. And ~60% of new cars sold are electric in Norway. They are doing it right. Too bad the rest of the world is slow to catch up.

> And ~60% of new cars sold are electric in Norway.

There is a specific reason for this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_in_Norway#H...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#127

Post by mytailorisrich »

ovi256 wrote: post #118
mytailorisrich wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is that EU/EEA driving licences are considered as valid as local licences, without time limits, because Norway is in the EEA.

>without time limits Not true in many EU countries. In France you're supposed to get a French driving license after two years of residence. Never heard of this being enforced, but I know people that changed when their licensed needed renewal so they could deal with a local administration.

This is not compulsory. It is perfectly legal to keep your EU/EEA licence as long as it is valid. They can force you to exchange it for a local one, though, if you commit certain driving offences.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#128

Post by _1tan »

gokhan wrote: post #13

One interesting observation on Oslo is that, pedestrians do cross the street when it's red for them, if there's no moving traffic close by. This is totally different from, for example, Copenhagen, Stockholm and places I visited in Germany. They're like Italians of the north. That's probably why we felt at home on the streets during our stay there, as a family from Turkey. I would love to have that 0 deaths statistics…

It is prohibited by law in Germany: https://travel.stackexchange.com/questions/44842/crossing-ro...

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#129

Post by ossworkerrights »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #105

The entire country (Norway) had 0 children traffic deaths in 2019. In total 110 traffic deaths, of which 72% were men, very similar to the past few years. About 2/3rd of deaths were drivers or passengers in a car (the rest motorbike or pedestrian), and of those in cars 1/3rd were not using a seat belt. So it's likely you could get an immediate decrease in total traffic deaths of close to 20% if you could just force e…

What a stark contrast to Romania, which had almost 2000 deaths at a population only 4 times larger than norway. Wondering what are the lessons to learn and apply to that country as the situation is out of control.

Re: Oslo had 0 pedestrian, 0 cyclist, 0 children and 1 driver trafic deaths in 2019

#130

Post by TomMarius »

lucideer wrote: post #121
TomMarius wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure what you mean with this effectiveness. I live in Prague, the city with (what they say) one of the best public transport systems in the world, and yet, going to my workplace is 45 minutes by public transport and 15 minutes by car. Even though I live close to a subway and tram station, and the workplace is right in the city center, car still wins - where is the effectiveness you're talking about? This is…

There's multiple issues with your anecdote (one of course it being an anecdote, not a statistic); to focus on the main ones: - you're looking at individual efficiency rather than system: in particular the fact that public transport is made less efficient by people driving. You're describing a chicken-egg problem if you want improvements in public transport - you're focused on time as a metric, not accounting for econ…

If I live next to a subway and tram stations (trams have dedicated tracks not shared with car in most places here) and the car is still a better option, it's an issue with the public transport system and people driving do not make it much worse. The subway is not affected at all and yet the number of trains per hour has stayed constant for years.
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