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How to stay private when using Android

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Re: How to stay private when using Android

#161

Post by tedk-42 »

slenk wrote: post #122
evgen wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because unlike Google, Apple does not generate the vast bulk of its revenue from selling your private data to advertisers, so Apple does not have an extensive history of violating your privacy for profit.

Yeah, they generate revenue by locking you into an expensive ecosystem which has zero transparency, so we actually don't know what Apple is doing. We don't know if Apple is violating our privacy. Who knows who Apple is selling your data to.

This information would have already been leaked by an Apple insider or a third party which pay Apple for user metadata. As neither have occurred, I'm inclined to believe they do not sell their user's data.

Google on the other hand have an entire business model which sells your data. I know who I'd trust with my data and TBH, I think you're just throwing stones without understanding your own subconscious bias against Apple.

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#162

Post by slenk »

hylaride wrote: post #156
slenk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are okay with everything being synced to Apple? What's the difference? Why do you think Apple respects your privacy more?

Because Apple isn’t an advertising company and doesn’t need to. They also at least come out and say they won’t share your data with 3rd parties, except as needed (this has caused some problems with Siri stuff in the past). Google is an advertising company first. And advertisers will pay a lot more for that data.

> Because Apple isn’t an advertising company and doesn’t need to

While I agree, just because they don't need to doesn't mean they won't.

Google didn't need to invent gmail and get everyone sucked in to a free product, and then start reading emails to advertise, but it did.

I know it's not exactly apples-to-apples (no pun intended) but I wouldn't put all my faith in a company not doing something egregious for profit because they don't _need_ to

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#163

Post by emodendroket »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #38
emodendroket wrote: post #22

If you want to stay private, give up the idea of a smartphone altogether. If you (quite understandably) do not want to do that, you're pretty much just kidding yourself.

Privacy is a continuum, and you most certainly can improve over the default state while still using a smartphone.

Perhaps, but I think once I'm broadcasting my location at all times to one party the rest feels a bit like window dressing.

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#164

Post by skrowl »

AlphaWeaver wrote: post #49
johnsea wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not all or nothing privacy. If you give up Android/Google Play (and Facebook etc.) you have a much smaller exposure. Buy an iPhone or a Jolla (or, maybe in future, PinePhone or Librem). Then use Firefox with uBO, DuckDuckGo and Fastmail. And you have a much better privacy in 2020.

IIRC, you can't use uBO on Firefox on iOS, only on Android.

This is correct. Per App Store rules, all web browsers are basically just skins on top of WebKit. Not only can they not make extensions work like they can on other OSs, they also can't make their own HTML/CSS or JS engines.

See 2.5.6 here - https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

Android has Firefox with many extensions, and Firefox variants such as Tor browser. iOS essentially has Safari or skinned Safari. (This may all change when they're forced via anti-trust rulings to allow 3rd party apps & stores on their devices, but those legal rulings may be years off).

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#165

Post by elric »

freehunter wrote: post #143
elric wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are literally banks out there that are unusable without an Android/Apple smartphone. And while it's currently still possible to use a bank that isn't as insane, I expect this trend will only get worse. It'll no longer be a case of foregoing some smart conveniences, but about being able to access important parts of the economy.

Not only is it still possible to find a bank that works without a smartphone, at least in America you'd have to go dramatically out of your way to do business with a bank that only works if you have a smartphone. The number and quality of banks that work without a phone is so much higher than the number of banks that require a phone, it's barely even worth mentioning.

The course has been set, that's the way all banks are headed.

Challenger banks like Revolut, N26, Bunq, ... are all very reliant on smart phone apps. Even if they have web interfaces, you can't log in without authenticating with the app

Tangent: American banks might not be the best example here, given their reliance on ancient tech like signatures, paper checks and magnet strips. But they, too, will move in this direction.

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#166

Post by yrro »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #94
danShumway wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Google tracked user location even when location history was turned off. 2. Most people don't understand the full extent of Web and App Activity permissions -- they don't understand that this will allow Google to do things like parse search queries out of DuckDuckGo searches on Chrome. 3. Similarly (until recently) most people didn't realize that Google was using email info for advertising, including purchases made…

> 1. Google tracked user location even when location history was turned off. This is disingenuous. If the user uses a Google app that needs location data, of course that location will be sent to Google. This also happens on iOS. > 3. Similarly (until recently) most people didn't realize that Google was using email info for advertising That's how Gmail was marketed when it launched. Ads were shown based on the content…

So if I don't want Google telling the world where I live, I can no longer tell Windows users to not upload my WiFi passwords to Microsoft (_optout)... what a world we live in!

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#167

Post by yrro »

freehunter wrote: post #140
jblz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "android is awful!" ... "I bought a cheap one" Nothing like condemning the entirety of a thing based on a single limited intentionally-bottom-of-the-barrel experience!

This is one thing I don't understand about the Android ecosystem... Android fans like to point out that you have a choice of phone price points from $100 up to $1000, where on Apple devices it's generally $600 to $1000. But if you actually buy one of those $100 phones and have a problem with it, the first response is always "well yeah that's what you get for buying a cheap phone". Seems like an illusion of choice if…

I agree with you, but for the same of argument... this Android user will also earn prospective buyers up front that they should steer well clear of the cheap devices before they buy them too!

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#168

Post by asdkhadsj »

izacus wrote: post #147
asdkhadsj wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on what criteria you care about. In the example of polling, and the data that can leak from said polling, it's only different in the sense that we _know_ Google is evil in this equation. So if this is a concern of yours you should definitely not use Google, and you should probably not use Apple.

What the heck does "we _know_ Google is evil" actually mean? This isn't a Marvell movie, how does doing the same thing by two different corporations make a difference beyond you buying into brand marketing?

Simply a meme about exploiting your user data as extremely as Google can. Ie, I am their sole business model on the advertising front.

A good example is many of the things outlined in this post. People _trying_ to use Android privately, but after an update Google switches all of their privacy settings back to giving Google everything - and it syncs all old stuff to boot.

That behavior is what I consider actively combatant towards the consumer. It's like how Comcast just keeps finding ways to make incremental fees, "accidentally" charge people, etc.

These are under what I consider "evil" for corporations.

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#169

Post by lern_too_spel »

yrro wrote: post #166
lern_too_spel wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Google tracked user location even when location history was turned off. This is disingenuous. If the user uses a Google app that needs location data, of course that location will be sent to Google. This also happens on iOS. > 3. Similarly (until recently) most people didn't realize that Google was using email info for advertising That's how Gmail was marketed when it launched. Ads were shown based on the content…

So if I don't want Google telling the world where I live, I can no longer tell Windows users to not upload my WiFi passwords to Microsoft (_optout)... what a world we live in!

Google and Mozilla. Apple will continue to tell the world where you live.

Microsoft no longer uploads WiFi passwords, but when it did, you could opt out by putting _optout anywhere in the SSID.

Re: How to stay private when using Android

#170

Post by hylaride »

slenk wrote: post #162
hylaride wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple isn’t an advertising company and doesn’t need to. They also at least come out and say they won’t share your data with 3rd parties, except as needed (this has caused some problems with Siri stuff in the past). Google is an advertising company first. And advertisers will pay a lot more for that data.

> Because Apple isn’t an advertising company and doesn’t need to While I agree, just because they don't need to doesn't mean they won't. Google didn't need to invent gmail and get everyone sucked in to a free product, and then start reading emails to advertise, but it did. I know it's not exactly apples-to-apples (no pun intended) but I wouldn't put all my faith in a company not doing something egregious for profit b…

With Apple I trust, but verify. Apple actually has in it's EULA terms that it won't share the data. I know they can easily change it, but that's a good sign.

With Apple's icloud services, outside of a small free tier, you actually pay them money.

With Google, the only real revenue they have is from ads.

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