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IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

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341–350 of 489 posts

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#341

The both parties argument is so stale at this point. While the Dems might not be perfect, they aren't actively sabotaging our democracy. The Republicans just passed a huge tax bill and what did it do? Oh, huge handouts to the wealthy. Nice!

Please don't take HN threads into partisan flamewar. It's poisonous and tedious and off topic here.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21923930.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#342
post #11

There is no reason the IRS shouldn't have a simple, online fillable 1099EZ that makes the calculations and validations for you. And while their at it, match the SSN to the w2 info that they have on file. This would take care of 80% of the population. Just don't outsource it. I'm sure USDS could have it ready in less than a year.

The IRS already does the calculations and knows what you owe. They have to so that when people file, they can verify that filing. The problem is that is requires citizens to even have to think about doing it and that is a major pain point Intuit et all are feeding off of.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#343
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then there is no limit to the power of the Federal government. If they can say, “We can do a better job than you, person or State”, then can run roughshod over personal and State’s rights. I guess that’s fine as long as they are running over people and States you don’t like. What happens if Trump goes into California and takes over due to the humanitarian crisis that the State brought in itself ie the tent cities?

The states are subservient to the federal government as restrained by the constitution. If the federal government (Trump, Obama, Nixon, Clinton, it does not matter) wants to take over California and can find an emergency power to do so authorized by Congress then the federal government will take over California. The argument isn’t “we can do a better job than you” it’s “we are allowed to do this job for you”. Whether…

Ha. Everything the federal government touches turns to crap. Hell the only reason we won the world wars is because we throw wave after wave of people at the enemy like Zap Branagan. Health care is shit because of the government. Education has tanked since their take over. Privatization is the only way this country has work.

Also, you're absolutely incorrect about the Federal government being able to do something. They have limited, enumerated rights. Show me in the Constitution where it has the power to take overland to hold in trust.

"This is a very interesting question, Philip. The clause on which Congress' authority might rest is:

"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States." (Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2)

In any territory or property of the United States, there can be no doubt that Congress has the power to create national parks, pursuant to its authority to make "all needful Rules and Regulations." The only question, then, must be whether the United States had the authority to acquire such property in the first place.

There are five possible sources of congressional power to acquire lands:

1. The states may cede a "District (not exceeding ten Miles square) [to] become the Seat of the Government of the United States" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 17). National parks do not form the seat of the government, and, moreover, are more than ten square miles in area.

2. Congress may purchase land "for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 17). But a national park is not a fort, magazine, arsenal, dock-yard, or building. As the Supreme Court held in Collins v. Yosemite Park, " forests, parks, ranges [and] wild life sanctuaries ... are not covered by Clause 17."

3. Congress may spend money to provide for the "general Welfare of the United States" (Article I, Section 8, Clause 1). But the welfare must be general, not local. As Alexander Hamilton expressed this limitation: "the object to which an appropriation of money is to be made be General and not local; its operation extending ... throughout the Union, and not being confined to a particular spot." National parks do not meet this criterion. Furthermore, as the Supreme Court correctly held in United States v. Butler, this clause does not extend to matters "within the sphere of state government." Parks are inherently local matters, firmly within the sphere of the states, not general ones subject to federal control.

4. Congress may acquire land under the necessary and proper clause. However, such land must be purchased for some other governmental purpose expressed in the previous clauses of Section 8. Setting up parks is not one of those purposes; therefore, the necessary and proper clause should not even come into the picture.

5. The government may seize lands under its eminent domain power. But as in the case of the necessary and proper clause, the land must be taken for some constitutional purpose, which as I said before does not exist in this instance.

It has been argued that the United States may purchase lands for any purpose. I would strongly oppose such an assertion, because it contravenes the notion that the powers of Congress are limited to those enumerated in the Constitution. The only exception is that the United States may acquire any territory from foreign countries by treaty, for any purpose whatsoever, because the treaty-making power is plenary, not limited by enumerations.

Therefore, on the whole, Congress may not buy lands from states in order to set up national parks. It may, however, set up parks in territories that were not purchased from states and do not form part of any state (e.g., Alaska before it became a state, or Puerto Rico today), and in the District of Columbia." (https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=29437.0;wa...)

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the OP's "guessing" comment was about, but the whole process is asinine. The IRS already knows the numbers on W-2 forms because they get the same data from employers. Financial institutions also send them 1099s and other forms. So the IRS already knows all the numbers . There's little point in making people manually re-enter the data. The IRS should automatically fill in everything it knows about, a…

I believe that Americans in the past and maybe even today have preferred the freedom of doing things independently of the government. While it is true the government receives all reported income , it is not true that they know about all your deductions/expenses. While many Americans are oblivious to such things in general the government gives you control over your own taxes. In reality, it's a small amount of respons…

> In reality, it's a small amount of responsibility and lets a person take ownership of the process. It is NOT difficult at all, especially for W-2 with the standard deduction. The whining in this thread is ridiculous imho.

The ask is for the government to declare what it knows about a resident's taxes upfront, and then letting the tax-payer decide how much they want to invest in contesting the government's calculation. The conjecture is that for most people the need for contesting the government's math will not be needed. Currently, the part you call "responsibility" results in tax payers paying a third party millions of dollars every year. The expectation is that this waste of money can be largely avoided. How is that whining?

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#345
post #38

This USA tax thing has always baffled me... it is the exact definition of why we pay taxes: for the government to provide services that are common to the country´s citizens. There´s nothing more common than tax collection: rich, middle class or poor. Why wouldn't citizens demand a public tax filing process? Even in Mexico we have an automagical tax filing process that makes: a) The great majority of the population wh…

> Why wouldn't citizens demand a public tax filing process? Because they don’t want to make it easy for the government to impose lots of taxes. Americans have the lowest taxes in the developed world. Not especially for rich people, but for everyone else: https://www.heritage.org/sites/default/files/inline-images/I... . This isn’t the work of some secretive cabal of billionaires. Rich people hire accountants to do the…

> But a platform of “we’re going to make taxes painful so the government is afraid to raise taxes” gets a lot of votes.

I've never heard anyone promoting the idea of keeping taxes complicated to avoid higher taxes.

There's nothing inherent in complicated taxes that stops the government from raising rates.

Conservatives have long wanted the flat tax (file taxes on the back of a postcard) and lower taxes, so simpler lower taxes.

I think the reason it became so complicated was because businesses lobbied for special rules and tax breaks that made things complicated in the first place. Businesses are now setup to take advantage of these loopholes (Amazon passing $0 in taxes, etc.).

TurboTax was built as a result of complicated taxes and they lobby heavily against a simplified tax code.

It's not some cabal of citizens wanting to keep taxes complicated, it's the industries that benefit from the current tax code that wants to keep it this way.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#346

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it. As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either wa…

I have had a different experience. Last year I filled out my 1040EZ and was unhappy with the final amount owed. I decided to click through turbo tax who found me a lot of deductions related to student loans and things. I think I only paid like $35 and they saved me over a thousand I would have missed otherwise. And truthfully, it's not a lot of money. I would gladly pay $30-40 just to not have to deal with the hassle…

Back 10 years ago I had a complex tax situation and my gut feeling on reading the IRS booklets is that the tax preparer (I tried 2 of them) were taking the "safe" route to prepare it. I called up the IRS hotline and they directed to me an expert who agreed that I could file it in a better way that saved me $5000+. And they were even willing to go over the form line by line to help me fill it out. I've heard that since then the help lines have been gutted as part of a crusade to weaken the IRS in auditing rich people.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#347
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, sounds like TurboTax will still be able to compete if the IRS gives people tax filings precalculated, as TurboTax can say "We can save you $XXX!"

I’m sure for a large percentage of Americans like myself the “$XXX” that they saved you is just the standard deduction. Maybe at some point in my life an itemized deduction will actually save me more money, but every time I have filed taxes TurboTax looks at my info and decides that the standard deduction is the best I’m going to get. So for some percentage of Americans TurboTax won’t be able to compete because they…

> So for some percentage of Americans TurboTax won’t be able to compete because they can’t save you more than the IRS already did with its deductions.

Except many people will try TurboTax or a competing solution anyway, just in case they can get a little bit of money back.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#348
post #336
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go further back to the founding of the nation for why this is. It didn't start with the GOP. Things that would be nationalized in other countries like the railroads have always been private in america. Even when Alexander Hamilton and George Washington had taxpayers of New Jersey pay for the country's first manufactories in Paterson, they were all private industries. Abraham Lincoln privatized all the railroa…

I don’t think it’s quite as simple as “not giving a shit about the country”, as much as it is the simple fact that different reasonable people can have different opinions about collective ownership. Recall that both companies and countries are abstractions; they are not real. Some people (reasonably) think that it is logically impossible for a country to own something. Others (reasonably) think it is logically imposs…

>Recall that both companies and countries are abstractions; they are not real.

Money is fiat. family is fiat. When you think about it everything is fiat. Plus, everyone thinks they own things. Im sure you'd be really upset if I took your paycheck and said you didnt own it. It's basic psychology. Even dogs get really upset when you give their bone to another dog.

But anyway, that's way too abstract for a real discussion. I'm specifically talking about the psychological effect of the civil war and how it affected important people like supreme court justices and tycoons, because if people want to understand how we got here, it's important to understand how and why decisions were made from a cultural/psychological/economic perspective.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#349
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> messaging that the government can't do anything properly I would love to hear about things the government has done exceptionally better than private companies. Please go on.

USPS is often faster and cheaper than private delivery companies, delivers to all addresses (unlike FedEx and UPS, which contract to USPS in rural areas), and would be profitable if not hamstrung by pension funding restrictions from Congress that are more stringent than private companies.

USPS is almost never cheaper than UPS or FedEx except for areas highly subsidized (AK and HI) and light weight international items. USPS has special (and anticompetitive) arrangements with foreign countries that UPS and FedEx can't have. Even with the special arrangements USPS is more expensive and less reliable than private carriers.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#350
post #4

Not sure how factual Adam Ruins Everything is, but his skit on taxes is pretty damning for tax software companies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj4anUL-LvY

+1 to Adam Ruins Everything! Other commenters might scare you away, but it brings attention to a lot of things that go unnoticed by the general public. Of course, always check sources yourself, but there are some genuinely interesting things brought to your attention that you might have never thought about.
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