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IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

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Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#321

Post by 0xB31B1B »

aidenn0 wrote: post #178
hanniabu wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Voting matters Gerrymandering and voter purging matters

FWIW, The GOP control of the senate is clearly not due to gerrymandering, or at least not any gerrymandering that happened in the past 100 years. I think gerrymandering is an issue, but it's only a fraction of the reason why representation is not particularly proportional.

The senate is gerrymandered. The reason we have north and South Dakota instead of just one Dakota is that the Republicans (same name, but long long long ago) wanted for senators, not two.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#322

Post by atombender »

dahfizz wrote: post #132
alistairSH wrote: post #67

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it. As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either wa…

I have had a different experience. Last year I filled out my 1040EZ and was unhappy with the final amount owed. I decided to click through turbo tax who found me a lot of deductions related to student loans and things. I think I only paid like $35 and they saved me over a thousand I would have missed otherwise. And truthfully, it's not a lot of money. I would gladly pay $30-40 just to not have to deal with the hassle…

But Turbo Tax is only useful because of how terrible the IRS is. It's a whole cottage industry propped up by a complex tax code and poor filing system.

In Norway, the government already has the data needed for your tax return: Withholdings, bank interest, capital gains, property income, loans, etc. The exceptions are things like foreign income, property, etc. that don't get automatically reported.

The tax return is automatically filled out for you, and if you don't amend it by the deadline (which you do by logging into the government portal and editing the form, adding additional forms, etc., all digitally), it's automatically submitted as-is.

(And the forms are simple! When I look at my US tax returns, which are prepared by a CPA, I can barely make heads or tails of it. But I could easily do a Norwegian tax return from scratch myself without a CPA.)

Most people don't need to anything at all, even if they have a situation that in the US would require a bunch of number crunching.

The above is also true about most European countries, by the way.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#323

Post by xrd »

danieltillett wrote: post #306
xrd wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, this makes me feel like maybe he had intention and thought behind this. I can honestly align with that thinking if he was doing it for this reason. It seems like the world only works with subterfuge, sadly. Is it impossible to be honest about what you want to do and move people in that direction, or is it only possible to motivate change by lying to people. I don't love Grover Norquist, but I thought it was inter…

Whatever Grover Norquist is, stupid is not one. He appears to be quite a complex (if obsessed) person and his views outside of taxation don’t fall easily on the normal left/right axis [1]. 1. https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover_Norquist

He just has so many strange positions that may be "smart" but, at least at first glance, seem to have awful side effects.

From that page: "In 1985, he went to a conference in South Africa sponsored by South African businesses called the "Youth for Freedom Conference", which sought to bring American and South African conservatives together to end the anti-apartheid movement."

Why would anyone work to end the anti-apartheid movement? Did Norquist think that divestment and free-trade would be more effective in ending apartheid?

https://www.thenation.com/article/meet-conservatives-who-cam...

Didn't know that Jeff Flake, the sole anti-Trump Republican US senator, was also active in that movement. I have often felt down on my luck about my employment opportunities, but never have I considered working as a lobbyist for a South African mining company during Apartheid. The book "My Traitor's Heart" has some riveting stories about the horrors of being a mine worker in South Africa before apartheid ended.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#324

Post by [deleted] »

jdavis703 wrote: post #318
komali2 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty disgusting. Summed up in one of my favorite tweets, which went something like > Gov: you owe us money. It's called taxes > Ctzn: oh ok, how much do I owe you? > Gov: you have to figure it out > Ctzn: oh well, then I owe you 0 > Gov: no, no, we know how much you owe, you have to figure it out, and by the way if you get it wrong you go to jail

I forgot to file one of several 1099 forms one year. I got a friendly call from an auditor. He explained what the discrepancy was, how I could appeal if I wanted, and what the payment options were. When I told him I'd take an IRS loan (i.e. a payment plan with interest), he advised me it would be cheaper for me to get a loan from family, friends or the bank. This was about as far from being threatened with prison I'v…

[deleted]

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#325

Post by kbutler »

alistairSH wrote: post #67

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it. As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either wa…

> In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it.

What are your top 5 well-run federal government programs?

Slate likes these: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2014/04/the-top-dozen-fe... Includes things like land grants, patents, and highways.

Mother Jones likes transfer programs (for efficientcy measured by % of funds transferred, rather than effectiveness of achieving stated goals): https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/01/chart-day-fed...

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#326

Post by reaperducer »

arcticbull wrote: post #308
reaperducer wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it has to get there by tax time so I’m having trouble believing it takes some tax forms literally years to make it to DC. It sounds like you've never needed to file a revised tax form for a previous year. I have, and millions of other people do it each year. Especially when you go to jail if they don’t. The IRS doesn't show up on your doorstep on April 16th if you don't file. There's a process. A long, involv…

> It sounds like you've never needed to file a revised tax form for a previous year. I have, and millions of other people do it each year. Wouldn’t it be great if it was automatic and right the first time and you didn’t have to file amendments as a consequence because the source material made its way to the IRS AND they told you how much to pay? Or the frequency was dramatically reduced via automation? > Because the…

Wouldn’t it be great if it was automatic and right the first time

Except that life doesn't work that way. Not everything in life is linear. Things have to be changed. Going back and making revisions is what humans do.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#327

Post by m463 »

xrd wrote: post #172

It's so insane to me that Grover Norquist somehow lobbied against free tax filing provided by the IRS. It escapes all logic that he didn't pay attention to what other countries do. It escapes all logic that he didn't think for a moment about what the cost would be to citizens in (more or less direct payments to Intuit) and that's not considering the incalculable cost of just gathering up all this documentation and pu…

Look at it from the other side.

How can you get the MAXIMUM tax revenue from your citizens?

The easiest way is to do it slowly, and if possible hide it.

#1 1913 implement an income tax

#2 1942 implement payroll withholding (easier to take what you never saw)

#3 make it convenient to just say "ok" to complicated taxes (free filing)

I'm surprised they didn't give you a "tax break" for letting the government do your taxes for you.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#328

Post by [deleted] »

briandear wrote: post #157
nightski wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the government always pays interest on money it owes you.

Not true. They don’t give you interest on your payroll withholdings. If you overpaid taxes by $5000, you get exactly $5000 back as refund, despite them having that money for a part of the year.

[deleted]

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#329

Post by monkeycantype »

This is at number two on the front page, I'm wondering how much this is driven by a specific interest in this story, or whether other people are having the same, probably childish emotional reaction that I am, an almost dumbfounded disbelief that a major institution is not charging headlong towards death cult dystopia. A public institution has acted seemingly for public good. Regardless of whether its driven as much by shame as by duty and altruism, - I'm deeply confused about how to think about this.

Is this a trick? Sleight of hand to distract, to funnel the non wealthy towards a presentation of the tax code that obscures the existence of incantations to the elder gods known only to operating thetan level VIII accountants?

Is this a bellwether of positive change, or a an eddy current in the river Styx?

Is this just normal institutional behavior? Is Ragnarök 2020 just a delusional end-of-days narrative I've bought into? I can't believe we've made it this far - Y2k didn't kick off, I was sure at least Agile would be dead by now, am I 'dude you\'re overthinking this'?

Am I in a distributed doomsday cult?

oh, also - happy new year.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#330

Post by m463 »

privateSFacct wrote: post #8

Fantastic news! Now let's have the IRS start building out their free e-file program and IDEALLY put some pressure or at least summarize what parts of the tax code are the most complex so they can be simplified. A lot of the tax code complexity comes from congress messing with the logic of taxing folks on their income. And yes, simplifying the tax code would get rid of loopholes like deduction that can exceed the cost…

Isn't that like being arrested and hoping the court will streamline your judgement, sentencing and incarceration.

In other words: the government and the IRS should have checks and balances to income taxation, not (literal) carte blanche.

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