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IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

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Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#111

Post by astura »

alistairSH wrote: post #67

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it. As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either wa…

It's also anti-tax activist like Grover Norquist’s Americans for Tax Reform who hate automatic filing and prefilled forms too. Their reasoning is if taxes are "too easy" then somehow Americans will blindly accept tax increases so they actually want to keep tax filing as difficult as possible.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#112

Post by ssalazar »

ars wrote: post #58
coldpie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason the IRS shouldn't have a simple, online fillable 1099EZ that makes the calculations and validations for you. It is largely due to Republicans that we don't have such a program. Voting matters. https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t...

Are we reading the same article? Don't invent partisan issues, the article makes it clear it's not a "Republican" thing, it's an Intuit thing.

The vote for the CA bill was effectively along partisan lines and national opposition to tax filing reform receives significant financial/political support from Grover Norquist.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#113

Post by repsilat »

everybodyknows wrote: post #69
lykr0n wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. TubroTax is around $40 to file. CreditKarma offers their own version which is free. The controversy is that the IRS bound its own hands in saying it couldn't make its own filing software. I see no problems with private companies charging a Fee to provide a better service.

The Credit Karma blurb is here: https://www.creditkarma.com/tax But -- the hard bits are state-specific support, and the supplementals K-1, 6250, et al. Anyone have first-hand experience with CreditKarma tax filing? There's also TaxAct -- anyone tried it? https://www.taxact.com/

> Anyone have first-hand experience with CreditKarma tax filing?

I've used it for the last 3 years in California. Quite simple, free, supports backdoor Roths. Tax returns were quickly accepted and paid out into my bank account.

Dunno about more complex use-cases (I don't own a home or a business, and I work in one state year-round), but definitely worth a look.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#114

Post by cweagans »

ars wrote: post #58
coldpie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason the IRS shouldn't have a simple, online fillable 1099EZ that makes the calculations and validations for you. It is largely due to Republicans that we don't have such a program. Voting matters. https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t...

Are we reading the same article? Don't invent partisan issues, the article makes it clear it's not a "Republican" thing, it's an Intuit thing.

In the 2004 and 2006 election cycle, Intuit donated substantially more to Republicans than Democrats: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/totals.php?id=D000026667

Bush campaigned on (among other things) rewriting and simplifying the tax code. Bush's executive order pushing that forward was signed January 2005: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13369

Maybe Intuit's donations and lobbying were not caused by that, but doesn't it seem really strange that a popular initiative suddenly changed direction after a big pile of money was given to Republicans?

Politicians shouldn't be willing to change their stance for money. It's as much Intuit's fault as it is the people that took the money.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#115

Post by newguy1234 »

jjeaff wrote: post #11

There is no reason the IRS shouldn't have a simple, online fillable 1099EZ that makes the calculations and validations for you. And while their at it, match the SSN to the w2 info that they have on file. This would take care of 80% of the population. Just don't outsource it. I'm sure USDS could have it ready in less than a year.

The big problem here is that without good validation being used, the system could be subject to data compromise/identity theft type attacks.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#116

Post by wool_gather »

alistairSH wrote: post #67

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it. As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either wa…

There's also a political lobby (see: Grover Norquist) for the idea that filing taxes must never be made easier, because that will make them more palatable. Combined with their axiom that taxes are inherently bad, the result is an argument that tax filing should actually be as painful as possible. (The surprising strength of this lobby is one possible reason that the "file your taxes on a postcard" idea died a few years ago.)

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#117

Post by q845712 »

everybodyknows wrote: post #69
lykr0n wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. TubroTax is around $40 to file. CreditKarma offers their own version which is free. The controversy is that the IRS bound its own hands in saying it couldn't make its own filing software. I see no problems with private companies charging a Fee to provide a better service.

The Credit Karma blurb is here: https://www.creditkarma.com/tax But -- the hard bits are state-specific support, and the supplementals K-1, 6250, et al. Anyone have first-hand experience with CreditKarma tax filing? There's also TaxAct -- anyone tried it? https://www.taxact.com/

I've used credit karma for the last 2 or 3 years - it's very easy if your taxes are simple (e.g. a job change mid-year, a spouse, itemized deductible, all very easy). It was even ok when my taxes included some weird forms last year because a previous employer was sold and my options were worth a few k - had to figure out where to enter things, but i paid roughly the amount of taxes i expected to so i assumed i filled out karma credit's app correctly.

Overall i think CreditKarma is fine if you don't mind that you're sharing data with a company that would love to middleman you into signing up for a new credit card or something. I find their emails pretty easy to ignore and it's felt like a fair trade thus far, though I may look into the IRS offerings this spring and see what else is available.

edit: in California.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#118

Post by chmaynard »

mucholove wrote: post #47

One of the sad things behind the story: Bill Campbell was Chairman of the board at Inuit while this was going on. His story is inspiring. I’m a capitalist at heart. But I’m not a monopolist or a crony—and hope not to become one. The best among us aren’t perfect. We should take this as a cautionary tale.

The mantra for Intuit, indeed for every for-profit company in the Valley, is to grow or die. Even a rockstar exec like Bill Campbell couldn't escape that imperative. Intuit decided they had to keep growing their market to survive and they chose to go after the huge majority of taxpayers who really didn't need their services. Once that decision was made, the logic of eliminating your competition followed as a matter of course, and the IRS itself was and still is their biggest potential competitor.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#119

Post by wy35 »

ars wrote: post #58
coldpie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason the IRS shouldn't have a simple, online fillable 1099EZ that makes the calculations and validations for you. It is largely due to Republicans that we don't have such a program. Voting matters. https://priceonomics.com/the-stanford-professor-who-fought-t...

Are we reading the same article? Don't invent partisan issues, the article makes it clear it's not a "Republican" thing, it's an Intuit thing.

The article clearly states that Intuit deliberately used Republicans to lobby against ReadyReturn.

Intuit had just given $1 million to a Republican running to unseat John Chiang, an FTB member who supported ReadyReturn. The chair of the FTB, Steve Westly, says the support drummed up by Bankman gave them more political space to vote for a program they felt strongly about.

Let's not ignore the fact that the Republican platform fundamentally lines up closer to Intuit's business interests.

When Ronald Reagan was governor of California, he opposed a reform that would make paying taxes more seamless on the grounds that “paying taxes should hurt.”

...

That morning, Frommer polled his colleagues in the Assembly and found they were a vote short. No Republicans would vote for the bill, and some Democrats would vote ‘no’ too.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#120

Post by wool_gather »

sbierwagen wrote: post #108
alistairSH wrote: post #67

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it. As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either wa…

Along the same lines, there used to be three different tax forms: the standard 1040 form, then two progressively more simplified forms for people who didn't want to do itemized deductions. Well, the GOP takes power in 2016, and declares that they will "reduce" paperwork by removing... the two simplified forms! Now everyone has to fill out the complete 1040, which is also now strangely cramped and calls out to a dozen…

See the sibling comments about Grover Norquist; this wasn't incompetence: there's actually a pretty strong political group in favor of this kind of thing.
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