IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax • Hacker News Board

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#61

Post by JohnFen » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #28

masklinn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of insanity leads to this? The government is prohibited from creating software that helps its citizens? "Lobbying" and "campaign contributions", aka paying congresspeople aka straight up corruption but you can't use the C word in US politics. H&R Block and Intuit have been greasing palms for years to keep the agreement in place and encode it in law: https://www.propublica.org/article/congress-is-about-to-…

While I agree there is a money problem, it's not quite so simple as just "paying people off". The money goes to their campaign funds which I'm sure get abused sometimes, but they also get called out and prosecuted for it. Additionally, money donated directly to the politician's fund is limited. Money paid to a PAC is very much separated from the politician. They can't so much as coordinate with the PAC. So it's more…

> So it's more about having money to get reelected than a simple personal bribe.

I think that's a distinction without much of a difference.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#62

Post by ChuckMcM » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

From the article: The addendum also expressly bars the companies from “engaging in any practice” that would exclude their Free File offerings “from an organic internet search.”

Note the term "organic" which suggests the page "naturally" ranks in the first few hits. The agreement doesn't seem to prevent Intuit and others from both buying ads to populate the top of search results and SEO'ing the crap out of it to make their stuff rank at the top "organically."

I see this as a good example of how policy makers write policy with good intentions but without a fundamental understanding of how gamed Internet search is in order to make it profitable.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#63

Post by hinkley » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

logicallee wrote: post #41

dang wrote: post #9

HN has always been at war with TurboTax. Edit: looks like this line didn't go over so well. To avoid distractions, I'm going to move these links to another post and mark this subthread off topic. Links moved to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21924055 .

I suggest you change "HN has always been at war with TurboTax" which unless I'm mistaken is a reference to 1984, in which history is rewritten retroactively[1]. To me this phrasing seems to imply that half of your links would be strong support of TurboTax. Since this whole subject includes a lot of doublethink (such as the fact that according to a video someone posted in this thread, the Free File Alliance is a front…

Or did dang just admit that HN redacts and changes old posts?

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#64

Post by wnevets » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

I just want to move to a system where the IRS sends me a bill, they know how much I owe them.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#65

Post by naravara » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

creato wrote: post #30

rdtsc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. To me they seem to be playing this perverse game of knowing how much you owe based on your W-2s then not telling you, waiting for you to file and guess how much you owe just right. If you guess wrong tough luck, you get penalties years later.

The "penalties" are just what you owed plus interest. I think the IRS will only charge an actual penalty if they think you were deliberately trying to avoid taxes.

I haven't run afoul of the IRS, but my state tax collection agency didn't even bother notifying me of underpayment, they just sent my account straight to collections to have me hounded by debt collectors. After contracting with a lawyer we determined that not only had I paid my taxes that year, I had OVERPAYED and the state actually owed me $500. When I resubmitted a corrected form for the state tax assessor, they sent me a letter saying the time-limit for requesting a refund for that year had passed and I could go kick rocks.

Experiences like that aren't unique and are enough to put lots of people off trusting the government to be on their side for resolving disputes like this. Most people don't separate out their state or local authorities from the feds. It's all just "government" to them. And even the IRS can make life extremely stressful by auditing people who aren't all THAT rich to begin with (because people with real money have lawyers who make it expensive to go after them).

I, personally, think the solution is to make the federal (and state) bureaucracy more service oriented rather than treating everything like a punitive law enforcement role. But apparently not many people agree.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#66

Post by iamwpj » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

jjeaff wrote: post #11

There is no reason the IRS shouldn't have a simple, online fillable 1099EZ that makes the calculations and validations for you. And while their at it, match the SSN to the w2 info that they have on file. This would take care of 80% of the population. Just don't outsource it. I'm sure USDS could have it ready in less than a year.

Is this what you're talking about? It doesn't have the intelligence for the W2 reference, but it is fillable. This how I've done taxes. Fill it out, print it off and mail it to the right address. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#67

Post by alistairSH » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

In the US, we've had decades of (largely GOP) messaging that the government can't do anything properly. A substantial portion of the population believes it.

As noted in a sibling comment, the IRS could pre-fill forms that would be correct for the vast majority of tax payers (who take the standard deduction/don't itemize, have a single job, and no other edge cases). These people should not be paying TurboTax either way - the forms they need to submit are relatively straight-forward. People who do need a CPA would have to hire one regardless. TurboTax is literally just ripping off average tax payers.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#68

Post by hexeater » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #35

rdtsc wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100% agree. To me they seem to be playing this perverse game of knowing how much you owe based on your W-2s then not telling you, waiting for you to file and guess how much you owe just right. If you guess wrong tough luck, you get penalties years later.

Have you actually gotten a penalty? The IRS is just interested in gathering its taxes, it has no interest in punishing you. You have to mess up pretty hard and/or deliberately to get the IRS on your case.

I have gotten IRS penalties/interest due to my incorrectly reporting. I was confused about how to report RSU and Stock Option income, and then I was doubly confused about how to do quarterly filings.

I am REALLY trying to do this on my own without an accountant. I think I got it right with 2019, but I will find in a few week how far off I am when I try to file.

I'd say my interaction feels like the IRS is just painting by numbers - they are just running the numbers and checking if you filed correctly or not. If you did not and the number is significant, they send you a letter.

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#69

Post by everybodyknows » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

lykr0n wrote: post #43

Waterluvian wrote: post #39

So in Canada I pay about $15 CAD to file for my household. It takes 20 mins and is submitted digitally. Is this the equivalent of the issue in the USA or is it more expensive or something? I get that free filing is kind of obvious as a right, but the online service really does give me $15 of value so I've never thought to be upset by it.

Yeah. TubroTax is around $40 to file. CreditKarma offers their own version which is free. The controversy is that the IRS bound its own hands in saying it couldn't make its own filing software. I see no problems with private companies charging a Fee to provide a better service.

The Credit Karma blurb is here:

https://www.creditkarma.com/tax

But -- the hard bits are state-specific support, and the supplementals K-1, 6250, et al. Anyone have first-hand experience with CreditKarma tax filing?

There's also TaxAct -- anyone tried it?

https://www.taxact.com/

Re: IRS Reforms Free File Program, Drops Agreement Not to Compete with TurboTax

#70

Post by nvarsj » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

Now if only I could file my expat taxes via some public service. The filing requirement in the Obama/Trump era for expats is literally insane, and I'd say even Kafkaesque in the truest sense. The way the government treats its expats w.r.t. tax is inhumane and makes me really dislike being an American.