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Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

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Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#41

I’m glad they were able to unionize but why should they deserve to have similar or same benefits as Google workers? Sorry to be blunt but they are cafeteria workers working for Bon Appetit. If I were Google I would just close all the cafeterias in order to avoid further precedent setting actions. The meals are going to get taxed by IRS anyway so might as well bite the bullet now and get rid of free food entirely.

"Deserve" and "should" hasn't got shit to do with it. Are we going to start policing sales and contracts corporations make to ensure the value they deliver "deserves" the compensation they're receiving? You get what you can get. If they can get more, good for them.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market-based opposition to unionization is a perfectly reasonable and very common opinion. Looking at how our industry treats people who express this opinion, though, I don't blame the OP for using an alt. Our industry really needs to work on tolerating a wider band of worldviews.

In a perfect world labor unions would be illegal is not a market-based opposition.

> In a perfect world labor unions would be illegal is not a market-based opposition.

Why not? It's perfectly reasonable to say in a perfect world, X would be illegal if you think that X is harmful enough for the state to act. I bet there are things you wish the state would ban. You don't have to agree with the OP, but he's not expressing anything wacky or bizarre. He just doesn't see unionization as some kind of unquestionable moral good.

The reaction this guy is getting really highlights how tech has become intellectually intolerant. It seems that everyone is treating what he said as some kind of blasphemy and is personally offended that he's opposed to unionization and wants to use the state to ban the practice, as if you're not allowed to think those thoughts and remain a person in good standing. You, in fact, are allowed to think those thoughts.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#44
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. We should repeal the minimum wage and the 13th amendment so no corporation should ever have to pay more than what a free market dictates.

Don't forget child labor. The market demands child labor.

I probably shouldn't say this here, but I'm a bit confused about child labor. The phrase brings to mind images of a crowd of muddy children sewing cheap shirts long after dark, and I strongly agree with regulations to prohibit that.

At the same time, why is it a problem for children to work? I grew up helping my dad out in his job as a handyman. [To be clear, this is legal and not what I'm arguing about.] Not every parent has a job where that makes sense, so working for someone else who does makes sense to me. Sure, there need to be regulations to prevent it from being exploitative and harmful. But right now, the state says that children must be in school x>0 hours a day and working y=0 hours a day. Is that really the right answer for everyone's situation?

Personally, I've decided that the value of x should be smaller and y higher (I'm homeschooling my kids, though admittedly we haven't figured out how to get them meaningful employment.) The idea is not to make them into better pawns of the capitalist state, it's kind of the opposite. I see value in work for making learning more meaningful, for teaching values well beyond what the artificial construct of "allowance" can support, among other things. I haven't actually run up against minimum employment age laws, and don't expect to for a while, but it does seem like a clumsy tool for preventing a variety of harms.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#45
post #11

The only reason labor unions are legal is that certain unions have outsized political clout, in a perfect world labor unions would be illegal under antitrust laws as forcing companies to pay workers more than what a free market dictates inevitably increases prices.

Cool cool. We can have our government stop recognizing the existence of corporations at the same time we outlaw unions. Deal?

Why? Corporations are largely great assets to a country, labor unions on the other hand are parasitic cartels.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#46

I’m glad they were able to unionize but why should they deserve to have similar or same benefits as Google workers? Sorry to be blunt but they are cafeteria workers working for Bon Appetit. If I were Google I would just close all the cafeterias in order to avoid further precedent setting actions. The meals are going to get taxed by IRS anyway so might as well bite the bullet now and get rid of free food entirely.

Google would be pretty unique among high tech companies and large companies in general if it didn't have cafeterias at all. I doubt they would close the cafeterias. If Compass is unable to negotiate a cost effective labor contract, the more likely outcome would be google switching to another provider. But that in itself doesn't seem very likely considering the optics, and the relatively small cost of this labor.

But, for the sake of argument, can you imagine what the lunch rush hour would look like in downtown mountain view and Sunnyvale if Google didn't have cafeterias at all? It was already pretty bananas when I left the Bay Area three years ago. Google's headcount on the peninsula was much lower then. And they did have cafeterias. Now it would be totally insane.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#47
I have mixed feelings about unions, but I'm OK with this move.

Cafeteria workers need unions. The maids who muck out hotel room toilets need unions. Coal miners who work in horrific conditions for little pay need unions.

You know who doesn't need unions? Millionaire TV anchors. Millionaire movie studio execs and actors. Anyone who makes six figures, which includes a hell of a lot of union members. In those cases the unions need the members, not the other way 'round, and it leads to greed and corruption because all both sides can see is dollar signs.

So, again. I think it's good that the caf workers got some protection. I'm still on the fence about computer programmers, though.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#49

The only reason labor unions are legal is that certain unions have outsized political clout, in a perfect world labor unions would be illegal under antitrust laws as forcing companies to pay workers more than what a free market dictates inevitably increases prices.

In a perfect world, unions would be unnecessary. I think that would be a less controversial opinion. Wanting them to be illegal is more a moralization of your economic ideology - it would not be compatible with a belief that “labor is entitled to all it creates”. And stating it as matter of fact rather than as an opinion is kind of lame

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#50
post #2

Good for them. As for the tech workers, they need something like a guild with membership fees and staff lawyers that would sue the state for allowing binding arbitration and non compete agreements (i.e. do what California did).

they need something like a guild with membership fees and staff lawyers that would sue the state for allowing binding arbitration and non compete agreements

Serious question: How is this kind of a guild different from a union in your view?

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