Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized • Hacker News Board

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#31

Post by nkrisc » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:12 PM UTC

greatscott404 wrote: post #12

lykr0n wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. In a perfect world labor unions wouldn't need to exist because government regulations would make sure employees didn't abuse employees and employees have protections. Unions are the logical outcome of lax labor regulations.

Are you suggesting that employee cartels squeezing money from consumers is justified? Want worker protections ask for that, no need to burden businesses any further.

What's the alternative? An individual employee negotiates one on one with... an entire company? The companies have all the power, unions are an attempt to not be completely trodden upon.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#32

Post by utopian3 » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:13 PM UTC

vjktyu wrote: post #2

Good for them. As for the tech workers, they need something like a guild with membership fees and staff lawyers that would sue the state for allowing binding arbitration and non compete agreements (i.e. do what California did).

Sue the state for allowing it? Honest question— Is that a legal argument? If laws don’t exist, how can you sue the state for not enacting them if it doesn’t violate a constitutional right...

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#33

Post by CalChris » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:13 PM UTC

quotemstr wrote: post #23

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting account. Created 15 days ago, negative rep, and every comments are on the same nature: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=greatscott404

Market-based opposition to unionization is a perfectly reasonable and very common opinion. Looking at how our industry treats people who express this opinion, though, I don't blame the OP for using an alt. Our industry really needs to work on tolerating a wider band of worldviews.

In a perfect world labor unions would be illegal is not a market-based opposition.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#34

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:14 PM UTC

greatscott404 wrote: post #3

The only reason labor unions are legal is that certain unions have outsized political clout, in a perfect world labor unions would be illegal under antitrust laws as forcing companies to pay workers more than what a free market dictates inevitably increases prices.

in a perfect world labor unions would be illegal under antitrust laws as forcing companies to pay workers more than what a free market dictates inevitably increases prices.

That's not a perfect world. That's just a world run in accordance with a bizarre selectively free-market economic masturbation fantasy. It's only "perfect" if you've got some kind of quasi-religious belief dictating a morality such that said selectively free-market economic masturbation fantasy is defined as "right", like some kind of madman who thinks Ayn Rand was God's final prophet.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#35

Post by utopian3 » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

pmoriarty wrote: post #27

sfink wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google [has] experience working with unions and [is] committed to working through this. My impression is that Google's experience is mostly in seemingly illegal union-busting (well, preventing) efforts. Then again, my impression is wholly based on reading HN articles on the topic, generally related only to engineers. But I suppose they'll do what they're legally forced to do, more or less.

Or Google could just leave. I hope they do. Good riddance.

> Or they could just leave.

Who? Google or the employees

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#36

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:15 PM UTC

utopian3 wrote: post #32

vjktyu wrote: post #2

Good for them. As for the tech workers, they need something like a guild with membership fees and staff lawyers that would sue the state for allowing binding arbitration and non compete agreements (i.e. do what California did).

Sue the state for allowing it? Honest question— Is that a legal argument? If laws don’t exist, how can you sue the state for not enacting them if it doesn’t violate a constitutional right...

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#37

Post by remote_phone » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

I’m glad they were able to unionize but why should they deserve to have similar or same benefits as Google workers? Sorry to be blunt but they are cafeteria workers working for Bon Appetit. If I were Google I would just close all the cafeterias in order to avoid further precedent setting actions. The meals are going to get taxed by IRS anyway so might as well bite the bullet now and get rid of free food entirely.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#38

Post by joshuamorton » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

greatscott404 wrote: post #12

lykr0n wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. In a perfect world labor unions wouldn't need to exist because government regulations would make sure employees didn't abuse employees and employees have protections. Unions are the logical outcome of lax labor regulations.

Are you suggesting that employee cartels squeezing money from consumers is justified? Want worker protections ask for that, no need to burden businesses any further.

A union is just the free market at work. Much as a business is a collection of individuals working toward the common goal of supplying a product, a union is a collection of individuals working toward the common goal of supplying a product (labor). If you believe a union is a cartel that squeezes money from consumers, you must necessarily believe that a company is the same thing.

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#39

Post by Spooky23 » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

greatscott404 wrote: post #12

lykr0n wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. In a perfect world labor unions wouldn't need to exist because government regulations would make sure employees didn't abuse employees and employees have protections. Unions are the logical outcome of lax labor regulations.

Are you suggesting that employee cartels squeezing money from consumers is justified? Want worker protections ask for that, no need to burden businesses any further.

I live in a free market and a free society.

Why can't I democratically decide to associate with and democratically negotiate in a group and freely enter a contract with a third party? Isn't that what a free market is all about?

Re: Thousands of Google’s cafeteria workers have unionized

#40

Post by fallingfrog » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 7:18 PM UTC

ryanseys wrote: post #8

Disclaimer: FTE at Verily (Google Life Sciences) Sounds like this isn't the first time this has happened and won't be the last. Both Compass (the firm that employs these cafeteria workers) and Google both have experience working with unions and are committed to working through this. Happy that these employees are getting the representation they deserve. I hope this means that these people will get better benefits tha…

“Committed to working through this”

“Look forward to seeing the issue continue to get light”

“Business priorities evolve”

You didn’t say anything particularly disagreeable but I wonder if you realize how this kind of language comes across- this is the way people talk to you right before they fire you or take away your healthcare or something. This kind of business speak just screams, I’m someone who cannot be trusted. It’s the language of power. We all cringe and grimace when the boss talks like this. It’s why you’re getting downvoted, I’d guess.