How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure • Hacker News Board

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#311

Post by gavinray » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:46 AM UTC

nextos wrote: post #310

darkerside wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying many diseases we believe to be autoimmune may be caused by infections?

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your immune system mis-classifies some of your own tissues as non-self and attacks them (autoimmunity). See introduction in: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 The reason is that both pathogens and your own microbiome mimic your tissue com…

I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are.

Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human.

It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases.

Do you have any solid resources for someone without an academic background who has an interest in this area?

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#312

Post by rosybox » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

We don't seem to understand much about any of diseases that affect the brain or nervous system. MS, Parkinson's, ALS, Huntington's disease, alzheimers, not even essential tremors or BFS. All these futurists thinking longer lives are just around the corner when in reality we don't jack shit about shit. Something goes wrong with your nerves or brain, you're likely fucked and there's little anyone can do to help you.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#313

Post by nextos » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:02 AM UTC

gavinray wrote: post #311

nextos wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your immune system mis-classifies some of your own tissues as non-self and attacks them (autoimmunity). See introduction in: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 The reason is that both pathogens and your own microbiome mimic your tissue com…

I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are. Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human. It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases. Do you have any solid resources for someon…

I'm afraid we still know little about dysbiosis, but most decent findings are in the literature. I'd encourage you to take a look at good recent papers. Once you get used to the jargon, you will start learning a lot.

Quick entry point, take a look at references in the introduction section of: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1....

Some other entry points:

* Commensals in hunter gatherers: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/1/3/e1500183.short

* Commensal extinction: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221...

* Fiber, metabolites and the microbiome: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12726

* Leaky gut and immune responses: https://www.pnas.org/content/116/30/15140

If you are not affiliated with an academic institution, use Sci-hub to get access to any paper behind a paywall.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#314

Post by gavinray » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

gavinray wrote: post #311

nextos wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Or dysbiosis, i.e. your own commensal bacteria, fungi and phages going out of control in different ways. The consequence of this in both cases is that your immune system mis-classifies some of your own tissues as non-self and attacks them (autoimmunity). See introduction in: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 The reason is that both pathogens and your own microbiome mimic your tissue com…

I have subscribed to the theory that humans are first and foremost a host for bacteria, and that whether that relationship is symbiotic or dysbiotic is largely a factor of how happy your bacteria are. Happy microbiome, happy human. Unhappy microbiome, unhappy human. It seems like more research is published every day that links the microbiome to common disorders and diseases. Do you have any solid resources for someon…

Thanks!

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#315

Post by lenguyen » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:11 AM UTC

Hello

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#316

Post by rolltiide » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:21 AM UTC

cockatiel_day wrote: post #187

This article is 100% true. My first job out of college 10 years ago was in a lab focused on Alzheimer’s research. Our Principle Investigator made an art of writing grant applications for studies that would appear to be in line with mainstream theory, but were really intended to test theories he actually thought were worth testing, presented in results as an “interesting” aside. He believed the amyloid theory had been…

> and have a conscious or unconscious agenda to preserve or validate their life’s work

this is depressing, means I have to second-guess if I have found a cause to spend energy on

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#317

Post by treeman79 » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

nextos wrote: post #291

el_cujo wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience more-or-less as well. Any graduate student that does anything even alzheimer's adjacent at the school I used to work at absolutely had to have a certain two researchers on their dissertation committee and they would 100% not let you progress without throwing a bone to beta-amyloid in your proposal (along with heavily pushing you to pander to some of their personal pet theories). It's a sun…

It's the same with autoimmunity. Some researchers are obsessed with genetics. But it's mostly about self misclassification due to infections and dysbiosis. Luckily, some top journals have started accepting this, but it's still an uphill battle against the establishment: * Type 1 diabetes: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 * Multiple sclerosis: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/462/eaat43…

Old Nero-ophthalmologist diagnosed me with Sjogrens because I mentioned my symptoms always improved for several weeks following a round of antibiotics. He has noticed that’s a common trend in Sjogrens patients. He’s never heard of the marshal protocol, just something He had noticed.

Can’t find a single doctor that will take the infection theory seriously. a Year later I can’t get a prescription to even try it.

My vit D is very low. Modern med just say take supplement. Mars shall protocol says that’s just feeding the infection. Supposedly bacteria loves vit D.

Love to find a doctor that doesn’t automatically dismiss me for bringing it up.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#318

Post by nextos » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:36 AM UTC

treeman79 wrote: post #317

nextos wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same with autoimmunity. Some researchers are obsessed with genetics. But it's mostly about self misclassification due to infections and dysbiosis. Luckily, some top journals have started accepting this, but it's still an uphill battle against the establishment: * Type 1 diabetes: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2019.12.18.881433v1 * Multiple sclerosis: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/10/462/eaat43…

Old Nero-ophthalmologist diagnosed me with Sjogrens because I mentioned my symptoms always improved for several weeks following a round of antibiotics. He has noticed that’s a common trend in Sjogrens patients. He’s never heard of the marshal protocol, just something He had noticed. Can’t find a single doctor that will take the infection theory seriously. a Year later I can’t get a prescription to even try it. My vit…

As shown in my references above, Ro60, a potentially causal autoantigen for Lupus and Sjogren's has been linked to commensal bacteria. The study is published in Science Translational Medicine, which is a high end journal, and quite conservative. Plus other studies have reproduced equivalent results.

So these doctors should both update their knowledge and also give you the benefit of doubt.

There is a growing network of doctors that treat multiple sclerosis with high vitamin D doses. Look for the Coimbra Protocol. They also deal with other autoimmune patients. While their protocol is quite experimental, and it poses some safety concerns, it might be helpful to get in touch with more open minded MDs.

Vitamin D influences so many immune pathways. I tend to think most of the effect comes from altering T regulatory / effector ratios. Others argue for regulation of HLA elements. Irrespective of that, low vitamin D is a big risk factor for many autoimmune disorders so I would question that statement.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#319

Post by refurb » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 2:45 AM UTC

cockatiel_day wrote: post #187

This article is 100% true. My first job out of college 10 years ago was in a lab focused on Alzheimer’s research. Our Principle Investigator made an art of writing grant applications for studies that would appear to be in line with mainstream theory, but were really intended to test theories he actually thought were worth testing, presented in results as an “interesting” aside. He believed the amyloid theory had been…

“science is like the Catholic Church, a lot of nice sentiments but full of people”

That’s a great quote. Pretty much any activity that humans are involved in are at risk for this type of behavior. Egos get involved and objectivity goes out the window.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#320

Post by wavepruner » Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 3:01 AM UTC

wtallis wrote: post #301

roenxi wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more information wouldn't really help. 'Crackpot' is something of a shorthand for an idea that disagrees with consensus research position. The only tool an average person has to determine an idea as truth or fiction is whether it lines up with the current professed norms; so for a technical forum like HN ideas that disagree with the standard research position can only be ignored due to lack of evidence.

> The only tool an average person has to determine an idea as truth or fiction is whether it lines up with the current professed norms; so for a technical forum like HN ideas that disagree with the standard research position can only be ignored due to lack of evidence. The manner in which someone presents their ideas is a decent secondary indicator. Common red flags include being evasive about what disease they're re…

Thank you for the feedback regarding how I come across. Next time I will try to include more specific detail in the OP that hopefully does not upset people. I've found that a vague introduction protects me from down-votes, but perhaps there is a way to talk about some details without that happening.

The illness is chronic mercury toxicity and the treatment is chelation therapy. I know a man who reversed his dementia with chelation therapy. He's an older guy that would get lost in his own neighborhood.

Steven Fowkes, a chemist, has done a lot of work in presenting the some of the latest research regarding Alzheimer's and how it relates to mercury toxicity. A good start is his Quora answer here: https://www.quora.com/Why-havent-we-made-progress-in-a-cure-...

Some other good scientific literature is the work of Boyd Hayley with the chelator emeramide. He's in the process of getting it approved through the FDA for treatment of acute mercury toxicity. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3346673/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29444690?dopt=Abstract