How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure • Hacker News Board

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#31

Post by allovernow » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:12 AM UTC

>scientists whose ideas fell outside the dogma recounted how, for decades, believers in the dominant hypothesis suppressed research on alternative ideas: They influenced what studies got published in top journals, which scientists got funded, who got tenure, and who got speaking slots at reputation-buffing scientific conferences

Not quite in topic, but Is it really such a stretch to acknowledge that the same forces in academia might bias climate science too? Except as another commenter pointed out, it doesn't take a shadowy cabal. Just a strong trend that individuals can believe in for ethical or moral reasons. Even when it becomes dogmatic.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#32

Post by praptak » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:14 AM UTC

The major and established beliefs in science usually have some fringe competition/opposition. You can only tell in hindsight whether it's "a cabal stifling valid criticism" or "scientists refusing to waste time on distractions".

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#33

Post by abgfm » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:15 AM UTC

creato wrote: post #19

tempsy wrote: post #13

Hasn’t Alzheimer’s been referred to as diabetes type III? It’s inflammation of the brain, and eating a low inflammation diet (low carb, no sugar, fasting) is the best thing one can do to drastically reduce getting it.

> It’s inflammation of the brain, and eating a low inflammation diet (low carb, no sugar, fasting) is the best thing one can do to drastically reduce getting it. Do you have a source? If you state something like this with such authority/in a "matter of fact" way (and is something that seems likely to be controversial), you really should have a source.

Here u go: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2769828/

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#34

Post by BorisVSchmid » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:20 AM UTC

allovernow wrote: post #31

>scientists whose ideas fell outside the dogma recounted how, for decades, believers in the dominant hypothesis suppressed research on alternative ideas: They influenced what studies got published in top journals, which scientists got funded, who got tenure, and who got speaking slots at reputation-buffing scientific conferences Not quite in topic, but Is it really such a stretch to acknowledge that the same forces i…

I can imagine that a dominant hypothesis could play a role in the predictions of future trajectories of climate on earth, but not so much for things like measuring past temperature / sea level rise.

To twist the analogy back to Alzheimer - all these scientists still agreed on the patient-level diagnosis of Alzheimer.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#35

Post by sillysaurusx » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:22 AM UTC

The truth has a habit of shining through if you are encouraged to keep asking questions and follow up on them.

The point is that people are actively discouraged from asking questions and following up on them. People lose their careers and livelihoods for asking the wrong sorts of questions.

Truth is no barrier to social backlash. In fact, questions that might be true tend to be the ones that get people the most heated. https://twitter.com/a_centrism/status/1211170458902487042

(I have no stance either way regarding that account, but it's an interesting phenomenon that someone has to basically shroud themselves in anonymity to present certain flavors of scientific research.)

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#36

Post by baq » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:22 AM UTC

allovernow wrote: post #31

>scientists whose ideas fell outside the dogma recounted how, for decades, believers in the dominant hypothesis suppressed research on alternative ideas: They influenced what studies got published in top journals, which scientists got funded, who got tenure, and who got speaking slots at reputation-buffing scientific conferences Not quite in topic, but Is it really such a stretch to acknowledge that the same forces i…

Anyone can put some co2 and a thermometer in a sealed container. A second one without additional ghgs, too. Alzheimer’s probably more difficult to understand and you have to trust somebody.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#37

Post by light_hue_1 » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:24 AM UTC

ping_pong wrote: post #3

This is another example of group-think in scientific research. The same thing happened for decades where low fat diets were supposed to help for heart disease but that has only recently been reversed after decades of indoctrination. This happens all throughout scientific research, where science is supposed to be immune to this, but it's obviously not. So many things we take as gospel, only to be reversed decades late…

This isn't the same as the situation around low fat diet at all. That research is intentionally distorted by companies who want to avoid the reality of what is needed: moderation, modest calorie intake and low sugar diets. The situation in the scientific literature was always far more fluid and complicated than what was communicated to the public because industry paid to communicate only the research they wanted. https://academic.oup.com/jhmas/article/63/2/139/772615 has a nice overview, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5099084/ talks about how industry intentionally distorted research, and http://resources.betterfly.com/uploads_resources/20000/19456... talks about how the government listens to corporations not scientists and how the science was always in doubt.

The situation isn't even close, low-fat diets are an example of how science is distorted by evil and money without a care for the lives of millions.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#38

Post by rapsey » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:24 AM UTC

igorkraw wrote: post #20

ping_pong wrote: post #3

This is another example of group-think in scientific research. The same thing happened for decades where low fat diets were supposed to help for heart disease but that has only recently been reversed after decades of indoctrination. This happens all throughout scientific research, where science is supposed to be immune to this, but it's obviously not. So many things we take as gospel, only to be reversed decades late…

While I'm all for changing funding systems I want to point out that there fact we have these scandals is the system somewhat working . Similarly to how constant criticism of the government/large corporations isn't a sign of rot, but of a system where improvements are still possible -as long as someone is pointing out the problems you can fix them. And science is not supposed to be immune to this, the culture of scien…

> While I'm all for changing funding systems I want to point out that there fact we have these scandals is the system somewhat working.

After decades. The only reason there is a "scandal" is because it is medical. There is shit like this in almost every scientific field holding back progress.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#39

Post by allovernow » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:26 AM UTC

baq wrote: post #36

allovernow wrote: post #31

>scientists whose ideas fell outside the dogma recounted how, for decades, believers in the dominant hypothesis suppressed research on alternative ideas: They influenced what studies got published in top journals, which scientists got funded, who got tenure, and who got speaking slots at reputation-buffing scientific conferences Not quite in topic, but Is it really such a stretch to acknowledge that the same forces i…

Anyone can put some co2 and a thermometer in a sealed container. A second one without additional ghgs, too. Alzheimer’s probably more difficult to understand and you have to trust somebody.

I really, really think you're oversimplifying climate science.

Re: How an Alzheimer’s ‘cabal’ thwarted progress toward a cure

#40

Post by raincom » Mon, Dec 30, 2019, 8:27 AM UTC

It is a well known phenomenon if you have studied the history and philosophy of sciences. Dominant paradigm(research program) writes off any anomalies their core hypothesis faces. They will explain away these anomalies with subsidiary hypotheses. Grants will be denied; tenures are denied; etc--all are common to anyone participating in a research program(paradigm) that competes with the dominant one.