Live data from Hacker News

Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

web.archive.org

21–30 of 62 posts

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#21
Tragedy is a synonym for calamity

It took me a little while to figure this one out, since I've always treated the two words as synonyms (non-ironically, I hope). In case anyone else also paused at this one, a tragedy is something horrible happening because of a weakness in someone's character, whereas a calamity is just something horrible happening. The point of the principle is that victims* of the American cargo cult treat every tragedy (blame or causality) as a calamity (no blame or causality), thus losing the opportunity to reflect on their own potential responsibility.

*term used ironically, I hope

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#23
post #21

Tragedy is a synonym for calamity It took me a little while to figure this one out, since I've always treated the two words as synonyms (non-ironically, I hope). In case anyone else also paused at this one, a tragedy is something horrible happening because of a weakness in someone's character, whereas a calamity is just something horrible happening. The point of the principle is that victims* of the American cargo cu…

That seems like an anachronistic meaning of the word tragedy. In the context of dramatic productions, a tragedy does indeed imply a flaw or weakness in character leading to some unpleasant outcome. But I don't think that implication is generally present when using the word in other contexts. I doubt many if any modern Europeans or Americans would find fault with the statement, "It's a tragedy when women die during child birth." Where the implication of a personal flaw present in that statement, it would be a deeply offensive statement. But in practice I think that's an agreeable statement.

It could be the case that Americans have a bias towards seeing calamity instead of tragedy (that rings true in my opinion), but I don't think that bias is evidenced in you or other modern English speakers treating the two words as synonyms.

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#25
post #9

I found this very helpful. It gives clear language for a number of things I’ve thought and felt about public discourse in America. To name a few in particular, the belief that complicated explanations are suspect and that certainty is strength. I’ve repeatedly observed that successful people seem to have very strong opinions and wondered if that was a contributor to their success. While it seems most things in this l…

I too see this pattern over-and-over. I think there are some root causes (but I don't to have given this a ton of thought... but...):

1. Many people are confronted with the model at work. The busy-ness and complications of the real world make simplifications appealing, and backed by a successful, charismatic person with clarity of vision, well spoken, makes for an easier "sales pitch", and easier to "get behind" Example: H. Ross Perot (a presidential candidate of a couple decades ago who advocated economic nationalism) was about as business-minded as Donald Trump. Perot was known for showing bar graphs and line charts during his speeches. People literally laughed at him. Trump, appealing to peoples righteous self-import and "American Greatness" was applauded.

2. There is a "marketing mindset" in America. People speak with a hint of respect when meeting or hearing of someone who could "sell an ice cube to an Eskimo." To me, an image of a slime-ball used car salesman comes to mind, but for some reason, others see this as a "respectful" skill. Salespeople are seen as "skillful" in eluding the normal track of school/eduction, hard-work, hard-thought, and the like, but they are still "successful".

3. Many American successes were "simple" in nature: Henry Ford's assembly line is a good example. Washing machines, electric refrigerators; most of the "big box" items that came out of the American Industrial Revolution are other examples. I'd bet money that, since Albert Einstein moved to the United States later in life, many Americans believe (incorrectly) that his famous simplification of E=mc^2 was only possible because of America. Tell Americans that the Arabs invented algebra, the number zero and much more, and rather than increase their respect for the culture and people, they'll simply reinforce their stupidity and their own lack of interest in such subjects.

4. I think academia suffers from this as well. Mathematicians and physicists always go on talking about "simplicity" and "beauty" as if their job is to deduce the simplicity of the universe.

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#26
post #21

Tragedy is a synonym for calamity It took me a little while to figure this one out, since I've always treated the two words as synonyms (non-ironically, I hope). In case anyone else also paused at this one, a tragedy is something horrible happening because of a weakness in someone's character, whereas a calamity is just something horrible happening. The point of the principle is that victims* of the American cargo cu…

That seems like an anachronistic meaning of the word tragedy. In the context of dramatic productions, a tragedy does indeed imply a flaw or weakness in character leading to some unpleasant outcome. But I don't think that implication is generally present when using the word in other contexts. I doubt many if any modern Europeans or Americans would find fault with the statement, "It's a tragedy when women die during ch…

I agree, and will surely keep using the anodyne sense of "tragedy" in my day-to-day chit-chat about calamities. Your "bias toward seeing calamity instead of tragedy" phrasing might be a better way to put it, because it contrasts the two words without suggesting widespread misuse.

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#27
post #9

I found this very helpful. It gives clear language for a number of things I’ve thought and felt about public discourse in America. To name a few in particular, the belief that complicated explanations are suspect and that certainty is strength. I’ve repeatedly observed that successful people seem to have very strong opinions and wondered if that was a contributor to their success. While it seems most things in this l…

Largely, the American people have been targeted with campaigns to make every possible combination of events into sport. This isn't a conspiracy, the people responsible have said as much.

From a New York Times article that quotes the president of CNN, Jeff Zucker:

Zucker is a big sports fan and from the early days of the campaign had spoken at editorial meetings about wanting to incorporate elements of ESPN’s programming into CNN’s election coverage. "The idea that politics is sport is undeniable, and we understood that and approached it that way."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/04/magazine/cnn-had-a-proble...

To quote the former-CEO and founder of Fox News (and media consultant for the Nixon, Reagan, and H.W. Bush Presidential campaigns, on top of an advisor to the Trump Campaign for debate prep) Roger Ailes in an interview with The Hollywood Reporter:

"We’re competing with TNT and USA and ESPN."

https://web.archive.org/web/20150409110830/http://www.hollyw...

These people have worked outside-in to make everything in America sport. When everything is just a game, nothing matters, and every occurrence is equal: the only thing that matters is that whatever you're wanting gets in the headlines enough to where people know what it is.

Some, like Ailes, go into politics to make sure their candidates are entertaining enough to be known by the widest net of people possible (that means they win, because it's easier to get people to love you than it is to get them to hate your opponent).

Others go into the private sector and reap the benefits of making every headline equally temporary.

You weren't talking exclusively about politics, but I think most of the cargo cult stems from political/economic desires that have bled into having an impact on everything else by making all other forms of information have to wrestle control from the sportsified headlines, time-slots and ad spots.

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#28
post #21

Tragedy is a synonym for calamity It took me a little while to figure this one out, since I've always treated the two words as synonyms (non-ironically, I hope). In case anyone else also paused at this one, a tragedy is something horrible happening because of a weakness in someone's character, whereas a calamity is just something horrible happening. The point of the principle is that victims* of the American cargo cu…

That seems like an anachronistic meaning of the word tragedy. In the context of dramatic productions, a tragedy does indeed imply a flaw or weakness in character leading to some unpleasant outcome. But I don't think that implication is generally present when using the word in other contexts. I doubt many if any modern Europeans or Americans would find fault with the statement, "It's a tragedy when women die during ch…

Yes, the comment struck me immediately as off because in typical conversation involving real people, tragedy usually implies the person is blameless.

Now that I think of it though, even in this other use implying a flaw, you are supposed to relate to and sympathize with the flawed character. In this view it seems harsh and inhuman to complain that every calamity might be seen as tragic. A mature person can often sympathize with human suffering even if the sufferer did something "bad" to get there. We shouldn't be 100% in punishment mode or gloating at comeuppance. Forgiveness is a thing. Sympathy for imperfect people is also a thing.

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#29
To some extent I have all of those.

To a lesser extent, I believe we all have those, even my thoughtful non-American friends. Some of those flaws might be more characteristic I some people than in other peoples.

So why call it “American” cargo cult? The only uniquely American aspect is that our inability to rise above these flaws is destroying the country.

(I’m actually not American. I’ve just lived in the US for over a decade)

Re: Principles of the American Cargo Cult (2003)

#30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like an anachronistic meaning of the word tragedy. In the context of dramatic productions, a tragedy does indeed imply a flaw or weakness in character leading to some unpleasant outcome. But I don't think that implication is generally present when using the word in other contexts. I doubt many if any modern Europeans or Americans would find fault with the statement, "It's a tragedy when women die during ch…

I agree, and will surely keep using the anodyne sense of "tragedy" in my day-to-day chit-chat about calamities. Your "bias toward seeing calamity instead of tragedy" phrasing might be a better way to put it, because it contrasts the two words without suggesting widespread misuse.

It wouldn't have to be widespread misuse. It's not impossible that the author meant it in the way the grandparent comment wrote it, even while understanding that's not how most use it. They show an interest in using language more adventurously throughout the piece.
Post reply on HN