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Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

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Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#161

Post by imtringued »

cavisne wrote: post #118
threeseed wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think Amazon and Ford would place such large orders for vehicles if Rivian hadn't "proven its chops". And Rivian is a variation on a proven technology. Magic Leap is a completely new one. Not comparable in the slightest.

Neither company loses much if rivian disappears. For amazon the equity investment fell under corporate social responsibility, the alternative would be something like carbon offsets which are a pure loss. For ford it just means one less competitor, and they might be able to salvage some IP in the fire sale. If rivian is just a variation on a proven technology whats their competitive advantage? They have zero manufactu…

If they only sell the platform then they are at the bottom of the value chain. Nobody is going to say "I want Rivian in my EV".

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#162

Post by kwhitefoot »

clouddrover wrote: post #120
_ea1k wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has said that they are willing to do so, just not for free. I also get the impression that they don't want every slow-charging electric vehicle to have access to their network, and I honestly can't blame them. They have capacity issues as it is, it would be much worse if slow-charging Bolts were able to use it. Its the early days still, though, so hopefully this will change as Tesla's competitors become more co…

Tesla only has capacity problems in North America because they've stuck with a proprietary plug. If they switch to CCS and provide a CCS adapter for older cars then their capacity problems will be solved. There don't need to be any special deals for them to open their network to other EVs. Tesla can just keep the old proprietary plug on their chargers, add on a CCS plug as well, and get on with it.

Tesla Superchargers in Europe already have CCS plugs because that is what the Model 3 uses here (no idea what connector they use in the US) and it is possible to order an adaptor for CCS from Tesla to be used on the Model S and X; unfortunately it requires a new socket on the car as well so it's not cheap.

So if other manufacturers wanted to use Tesla's chargers they just have to ask Tesla, pay their way, and help expand the network. At least that is what Tesla is rumoured to be willing to do.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#163

Post by clouddrover »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #162
clouddrover wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla only has capacity problems in North America because they've stuck with a proprietary plug. If they switch to CCS and provide a CCS adapter for older cars then their capacity problems will be solved. There don't need to be any special deals for them to open their network to other EVs. Tesla can just keep the old proprietary plug on their chargers, add on a CCS plug as well, and get on with it.

Tesla Superchargers in Europe already have CCS plugs because that is what the Model 3 uses here (no idea what connector they use in the US) and it is possible to order an adaptor for CCS from Tesla to be used on the Model S and X; unfortunately it requires a new socket on the car as well so it's not cheap. So if other manufacturers wanted to use Tesla's chargers they just have to ask Tesla, pay their way, and help ex…

> So if other manufacturers wanted to use Tesla's chargers they just have to ask Tesla, pay their way, and help expand the network.

Why does anyone need to ask Tesla anything? What does anyone need to pay?

Tesla can already use other CCS charging networks such as Ionity (https://ionity.eu), FastNed (https://fastnedcharging.com/en/), BP Chargemaster (https://www.bp.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/home/products-and-se...), etc.

Tesla didn't ask them anything. Tesla didn't pay them anything. So when will Tesla reciprocate?

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#164

Post by maxcan »

gamblor956 wrote: post #141
alexandros wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Taycan is not yet released, and not slated to until "Spring/Summer 2020". And since that's a lot of time till then, it might slip more. https://insideevs.com/news/383171/porsche-taycan-delivery-de...

There are Taycans driving around in LA right now...

There are also Cybertrucks driving around LA. Doesn't mean its released yet.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#165

Post by gamblor956 »

maxcan wrote: post #164
gamblor956 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are Taycans driving around in LA right now...

There are also Cybertrucks driving around LA. Doesn't mean its released yet.

No, there is a Cyber Truck being driven around by Elon Musk in LA.

There are multiple Taycans being driven around LA by people who don't work for Porsche.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#166

Post by woodandsteel »

I'm a huge Tesla fan, but it looks like Rivian has made some very smart moves, and I hope it's a massive success.

Why do I say that? Because to save the climate we need to move off of fossil fuel vehicles as fast as possible, and that can happen only if there are lots of car companies all doing it at once.

Now the problem is so many big car companies don't have their ev programs very well developed, so it is great there is a pure ev company that is licensing its well-developed technology out to them so they can get up to speed years sooner.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#167

Post by kwhitefoot »

clouddrover wrote: post #163
kwhitefoot wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Superchargers in Europe already have CCS plugs because that is what the Model 3 uses here (no idea what connector they use in the US) and it is possible to order an adaptor for CCS from Tesla to be used on the Model S and X; unfortunately it requires a new socket on the car as well so it's not cheap. So if other manufacturers wanted to use Tesla's chargers they just have to ask Tesla, pay their way, and help ex…

> So if other manufacturers wanted to use Tesla's chargers they just have to ask Tesla, pay their way, and help expand the network. Why does anyone need to ask Tesla anything? What does anyone need to pay? Tesla can already use other CCS charging networks such as Ionity ( https://ionity.eu ), FastNed ( https://fastnedcharging.com/en/ ), BP Chargemaster ( https://www.bp.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/home/products-and-se...…

> Why does anyone need to ask Tesla anything? What does anyone need to pay?

The comment is not about Tesla cars using non-Tesla chargers; it is about non-Tesla cars using Tesla chargers.

If other car makers want to use Tesla's network they would have to pay their share of the costs of maintaining and expanding the network.

At the moment Tesla's Superchargers are available only to Tesla cars even though many other cars use Type 2 and they now have CCS connectors. Tesla have several times said that they would consider opening up the system to other manufacturers cars if those manufacturers were willing to pay their share of the costs which most likely would be less than the cost of creating their own network. But, no other manufacturer has taken them up on it.

None of the charging networks you mention were set up by the car makers. Tesla's network is part of the package when you buy a Tesla, or at least it was, and is again, for the S and X. It is a selling point that the chargers just work. They have no user interface, you just plug in and it works. You connect your credit card to your Tesla account and away you go. No need for dozens of apps and RFID cards. Every other charger I have tried to use has been significantly more trouble and often simply would not work. Even those that are free in Tesco supermarket car parks (provided by a consortium that includes VW) need an app on your mobile to get more than 15 minutes of charging.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#168

Post by clouddrover »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #167
clouddrover wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So if other manufacturers wanted to use Tesla's chargers they just have to ask Tesla, pay their way, and help expand the network. Why does anyone need to ask Tesla anything? What does anyone need to pay? Tesla can already use other CCS charging networks such as Ionity ( https://ionity.eu ), FastNed ( https://fastnedcharging.com/en/ ), BP Chargemaster ( https://www.bp.com/en_gb/united-kingdom/home/products-and-se...…

> Why does anyone need to ask Tesla anything? What does anyone need to pay? The comment is not about Tesla cars using non-Tesla chargers; it is about non-Tesla cars using Tesla chargers. If other car makers want to use Tesla's network they would have to pay their share of the costs of maintaining and expanding the network. At the moment Tesla's Superchargers are available only to Tesla cars even though many other car…

> they would have to pay their share of the costs of maintaining and expanding the network.

Tesla is not paying other charging networks for the costs of "maintaining and expanding" their networks.

If Tesla's not paying anyone, then why should and why would anyone pay Tesla? This "you must pay us" position is logically inconsistent and hypocritical.

> None of the charging networks you mention were set up by the car makers.

False: https://ionity.eu/en/about.html

> you just plug in and it works.

The CCS equivalent is Plug&Charge (https://www.hubject.com/en/plugcharge-electrify-america/). Even with Tesla's limited charger interface they could support any vehicle with Plug&Charge and any biller.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#169

Post by AtlasBarfed »

greglindahl wrote: post #38
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't that part of Tesla's business-model between the Roadster and Model S? In 2010 they engineered the Toyota RAV4 EV ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV ). I'm curious how many other companies approached Tesla to seek partnerships building other EVs...

Tesla also supplied a drivetrain and battery pack for a B series car from Mercedes. At this point all of the big carmakers consider Tesla a competitor and EVs too important to outsource.

So they buy the big two components, motors and batteries, from other people rather than Tesla's (it would seem) superior ones.

There is so much EV plans of actions in companies seem to almost only be for mollifying activist investors livid that their particular company has been asleep at the wheel for 20 years of Tesla's rise.

Otherwise someone would be partnering. No one wants to admit they suck at engineering though.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#170

Post by kwhitefoot »

clouddrover wrote: post #168
kwhitefoot wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does anyone need to ask Tesla anything? What does anyone need to pay? The comment is not about Tesla cars using non-Tesla chargers; it is about non-Tesla cars using Tesla chargers. If other car makers want to use Tesla's network they would have to pay their share of the costs of maintaining and expanding the network. At the moment Tesla's Superchargers are available only to Tesla cars even though many other car…

> they would have to pay their share of the costs of maintaining and expanding the network. Tesla is not paying other charging networks for the costs of "maintaining and expanding" their networks. If Tesla's not paying anyone, then why should and why would anyone pay Tesla? This "you must pay us" position is logically inconsistent and hypocritical. > None of the charging networks you mention were set up by the car ma…

> False: https://ionity.eu/en/about.html

Thanks. I didn't realize that.

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