Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

hbr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 277 posts

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#251

Post by esotericn »

bosie wrote: post #236
esotericn wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to set your aspirations at a reasonable level and have goals that are relatively close (say, one order of magnitude away by some metric) to what you have now, with a plan that can get you there. Also: > If 40 out of 50 people end up in poverty in my neighborhood, then chances are I will given how similar metrics for ending in poverty is. This isn't the case at all. Most people don't prioritise wealth generat…

> Growing up simply with not much money isn't that hard to get out of. I might be misunderstanding but are you saying that upwards class mobility is easy, specifically from the lowest end?

Not at all. Upwards class mobility, in the true sense, is essentially impossible within a single generation. Speaking from a British perspective, a child with a poor upbringing is unlikely to be able to convince others, at least on close inspection, that they aren't actually a prole. (How might I know that?)

I am specifically talking about, as I say, "growing up without much money". A poor individual getting from the bottom, or close to it, up to a solid income (say 80th percentile). From there, the wealth is a matter of financial discipline. Some of the 'class' might come, but life is not an act, and Tarquin will always differ.

At least where I'm from (UK), it's a trivial problem in the sense that an equation might be trivial to solve, for an individual. The ingredients are there; an individual must apply themselves to the task at hand.

If you are healthy and of reasonable intelligence, obtain a degree from a good university, and apply those skills to a job, it's quite hard to fail at that catastrophically.

In a collective sense it is impossible, at least the way that society is currently set up. A lot of people have to not be on top.

What confuses people a lot is that they look at these statistical averages and assume that because most of the poor remain poor (and most of the rich remain rich - wealth is sticky), the same likelihoods apply to them.

But if you're actually trying to get out of that situation (most people honestly aren't - they might say they are, but it's not their #1 priority) you're not in that same cohort and you can quite easily be more competitive than those brought up in middle income families.

This is all based on my experience in Britain. In the US it's probably different.

If you're born in a poor _country_ then you probably need to get out first, and I imagine the whole passport visa situation is rather a challenge.

If you're born with severe disabilities, and poor, you could well be shit out of luck. So it goes.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#252

Post by incompleteness »

cryptica wrote: post #80
incompleteness wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect them to spontaneously have a spiritual epiphany about your "old soul"? Please man, stand up for yourself and learn the measures of business ethics.

You're jumping to conclusions. I often asked for raises and tried to negotiate. I quit companies several times after they failed to promote me or they failed to give me a raise. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with business skills. Just bad luck. My last boss was so upset when I told him I was thinking of quitting that, in front of the whole company, he threatened to throw me out of the window but then he apolog…

You're taking my comment in bad faith.

I claim nowhere that you don't negotiate, I claim you do it badly and point to the area of knowledge that is required to change that.

It's bad pedagogy to even acknowledge you playing the victim card, that's your psychological issue and I'm not about to play therapist to a stranger.

Edit: thanks for the negativity I suppose, I'll make sure you profit from my advice in no shape or form as requested.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#253

Post by AmeliaR »

life is not all about a career. Life is about a lot of things, but it is mostly about the people in it. The people that you begin with, and the people that you meet along the way. The people that are there when things go bad, and the people that are there to rejoice in your success. It's these people that make life worth living.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#254

Post by incompleteness »

turk73 wrote: post #183
incompleteness wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect them to spontaneously have a spiritual epiphany about your "old soul"? Please man, stand up for yourself and learn the measures of business ethics.

Seriously. Here's how the software business works: There are people in management with MBAs who follow the same template no matter what company you are talking about. Management sees everyone non-management as part of the infrastructure. Developers are not human beings to them, they are a commodity. A developer is the same thing as a printer or an office chair to them. To be in management, you have to also be "good"…

It's also a psychological issue caused by bad parenting and disinformation in the media, which leads people to seek meaning in work, leading to various forms of codependency with their employers, which in turn cultivates learned helplessness.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#255

Post by imtringued »

friendlybus wrote: post #222
sjg007 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absurd is the tension between the search for meaning and the inability to find any. It doesn’t mean there is no meaning as a nihilist would argue. Nor does it imply destruction. Camus’s absurd is more akin to Gödel incompleteness than nihilism.

The article repeatedly leans on nihilism as it's counterpoint to order and meaning. Time is infinite therefore we are meaningless is nilihism. You can fill in time with what means something to you, it need not be empty. >The thirst for more sounds comically absurd when you zoom out and see that nothing matters, so it’s about going deep into the zoomed-in life you already lead. Your health, your loved ones, your work,…

Life having meaning is like life having a door. There is only one way to advance and for a lot of people that door is locked. If you instead think that the door does not exist then you are free to choose any path.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#256

Post by dang »

incompleteness wrote: post #252
cryptica wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're jumping to conclusions. I often asked for raises and tried to negotiate. I quit companies several times after they failed to promote me or they failed to give me a raise. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with business skills. Just bad luck. My last boss was so upset when I told him I was thinking of quitting that, in front of the whole company, he threatened to throw me out of the window but then he apolog…

You're taking my comment in bad faith. I claim nowhere that you don't negotiate, I claim you do it badly and point to the area of knowledge that is required to change that. It's bad pedagogy to even acknowledge you playing the victim card, that's your psychological issue and I'm not about to play therapist to a stranger. Edit: thanks for the negativity I suppose, I'll make sure you profit from my advice in no shape o…

Would you please stop posting in the flamewar style to HN? You've done it quite a bit already, and it's the opposite of the spirit we're going for here, so we actually ban accounts that do it.

If you'd please read the site guidelines and follow them when posting to HN, we'd be grateful.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#257

Post by csallen »

alisonatwork wrote: post #221
csallen wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not make it your goal to find a goal? Due to hedonic adaptation, the journey of working toward something is usually more rewarding than reaching any particular destination, especially if you're getting lots of feedback along the way. Also, I've spoken with literally thousands of entrepreneurs, and most don't have what I'd describe as "killer instinct." Many of them gained a purpose through their business, rather…

This is great career advice, but by the end of your comment it felt like it went in a circle that leads back to the status quo. If humans really need to work to find fulfilment, then why bother trying to find fulfilment outside of work? I don't hate my job. It's okay. I'm pretty good at it. The pay is fine. If this is as good as it gets - the joy of seeing someone you're mentoring "get it", the pleasure of getting a…

I can't speak to what we need to find fulfillment. I haven't met many people who've said, "I'm fulfilled." And is fulfillment even the right goal? Once you reach it, is it not something you must constantly strive to maintain, or at least avoid losing?

We have a significant divide between working and living that I personally hope to erase, or at least minimize, in my own life. I've had some success this year, mostly through being more human and less down-to-business in my interactions with coworkers and colleagues. For example, previously I'd always prioritize speed and efficiency at work, which spelled disaster for experiencing real happiness at work. But recently I've begun to do things like having long, meandering 1-on-1 meetings that feel indistinguishable from casual chats with old friends about life, love, and whatever's interesting. Because why not?

Does having a purpose make something exactly like work? Well, if work is something that can be truly enjoyable, then the question is somewhat pointless. So let's imagine it can't. Then I'd posit that enjoyment depends less on having or not having a purpose, and more on what that purpose is. Trying to rush to hit some metric, or prioritizing speed and efficiency above human connection, or always having standards for success or failure, or doing things alone instead of a group… these approaches likely sap a lot of happiness out of spontaneous endeavors. But I don't think there's anything wrong with a purpose such as, "I'd like to have a lot of fun and make memories with my family over the holiday," and using that to guide you to say yes to some activities that you'd ordinarily ditch in favor of the easier choice to be stagnant and do nothing.

I also agree with you that not everyone would stagnate given time and money, by the way. I didn't mean to imply that. Only that many of us do stagnate instead of being as proactive as we should/could be to get the happiness or the lifestyle that we desire.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#258

Post by yowlingcat »

incompleteness wrote: post #254
turk73 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. Here's how the software business works: There are people in management with MBAs who follow the same template no matter what company you are talking about. Management sees everyone non-management as part of the infrastructure. Developers are not human beings to them, they are a commodity. A developer is the same thing as a printer or an office chair to them. To be in management, you have to also be "good"…

It's also a psychological issue caused by bad parenting and disinformation in the media, which leads people to seek meaning in work, leading to various forms of codependency with their employers, which in turn cultivates learned helplessness.

It's eerie how accurately this describes folks I know who have gone through several cycles of excitement, codependency, and disillusionment. Finally, I no longer "seek" meaning in work -- the only meaning is that it is a "means" to an end, and the closer I get to finding the good enough solution, the more simple I make things for myself.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#259

Post by o-__-o »

winfred wrote: post #214
o-__-o wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limit your drawdown to 4% (3% during recessions) and you’ll have money forever

Harder than you think. It means you need consistent 6% returns (2% inflation, 4% return). There's nothing out there that I know that gives you a consistent 6% return and the stock market is a fickle mistress. 2007 to 2009, VTI dropped over 50%. That 1% reduction in drawdown isn't going to be of much help much when your $1M turned into $500K, you'll need a job. But you stopped working for a while, so now your resume m…

You wouldn’t have your retirement 100% in equities though, you would be way more risk adverse. So in 2007-2009 you may have only took a 20% hit only to see that rebound by 120% within 2 years. In fact if you were paying attention in that time you likely would have loaded up on equities and rebounded a lot further. But you can see this is an edge case. Remove those years from the last 30 and you’ll see the 4% drawdown would have covered you perfectly through that time.

I think you are right $1m is becoming shallow these days, but that doesnt change the significance of my statement

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#260

Post by rebuilder »

o-__-o wrote: post #203
wgaf wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree. I'm currently into my third year of traveling and third new country. I'm getting pretty exhausted of starting again (new engineering job, new environment and new friends) and I'm starting to yearn for roots. It does take it's toll on you as now nowhere feels like home.

Then you settle down and the yearn to travel again takes over. It never really settles until you have kids.. and then I wonder if it’s only temporary (really want to travel now but the little one won’t remember it, so I’m rooted to his hometown)

Speaking for myself only, the yearning does not go away. It gets overridden by the realization that trying to fulfill that wanderlust was never going to make me happy. For me, travel was just a way of trying to find a place to belong, and once I realized that was my goal, I also realized that going from place to place was the exact opposite of what I should be doing.

That said, the longing has not gone away. I just know it to be a siren song.

Post reply on HN