31–40 of 77 posts
Does anyone see the alleged political reason in the post? The only thing I seem to see is that he was asked not to come without a message or something, and now got kicked out. Is that a political thing?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think might be a cultural difference? To _physically_ move someone who doesn't want to be move, you have to _physically_ grab them and move them. You usually do this with multiple people, in case the person might get violent or something. But I know that in some jurisdictions, just grabbing someone, not to mention moving them, is considered assault. So there's a conflict I guess? I'm not sure how to reconcile this,…
German law covers this in §32 StGB ("emergency defense"), which includes emergency assistance. If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others, they're done & out clear. P.S.: in German law, it's actually a crime to _not_ render assistance to others in danger - StGB §323c ("failure to render assistance")
You're the first person to suggest that he was threatening others.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think might be a cultural difference? To _physically_ move someone who doesn't want to be move, you have to _physically_ grab them and move them. You usually do this with multiple people, in case the person might get violent or something. But I know that in some jurisdictions, just grabbing someone, not to mention moving them, is considered assault. So there's a conflict I guess? I'm not sure how to reconcile this,…
German law covers this in §32 StGB ("emergency defense"), which includes emergency assistance. If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others, they're done & out clear. P.S.: in German law, it's actually a crime to _not_ render assistance to others in danger - StGB §323c ("failure to render assistance")
Interesting, my country has a kind of strange "necessary defence" law - it covers defending something that is protected by lay, not necessarily your own thing - as long as the defence is appropriate.
So you can "defend" someone else, or stop a thief even if they are not threatening you, because you are upholding the law - but you don't get to shoot a thief for example, because that would not be appropriate.
Is this how it works in Germany? I'm kind of curious if we just stolen this from our neighbour.
EDIT: Tomte replied on the side.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What I see in the video looks like security removing somebody from the premises.
It looks like a bunch of teenagers jumping someone. They don't look or behave like professional security agents. The bad chokehold one of them was attempting is actually banned from many police forces.
Well they aren't. Security roles at congress are performed by volunteers and that's a good thing, they don't usually have to physically evict people.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think might be a cultural difference? To _physically_ move someone who doesn't want to be move, you have to _physically_ grab them and move them. You usually do this with multiple people, in case the person might get violent or something. But I know that in some jurisdictions, just grabbing someone, not to mention moving them, is considered assault. So there's a conflict I guess? I'm not sure how to reconcile this,…
German law covers this in §32 StGB ("emergency defense"), which includes emergency assistance. If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others, they're done & out clear. P.S.: in German law, it's actually a crime to _not_ render assistance to others in danger - StGB §323c ("failure to render assistance")
Any ongoing[1] illegal attack on any legal right may be warded off using force, including insults (that's an attack against personal honor).
The force does not have to be proportional, only necessary (it must not be more severe than another one that would lead to success) and effective (it must have a reasonable expectation of success to start with).
Apart from that there are only minor exceptions (for small children and so on).
[1] "ongoing" is again much wider than you'd think: someone robbing you and running away with the loot? Still ongoing. You following them and striking them down? Still ongoing. Meeting them on the street next day by chance? Not ongoing.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
German law covers this in §32 StGB ("emergency defense"), which includes emergency assistance. If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others, they're done & out clear. P.S.: in German law, it's actually a crime to _not_ render assistance to others in danger - StGB §323c ("failure to render assistance")
German law has extraordinary self-defense statutes, both civil and criminal. The following applies to criminal self-defense: Any ongoing[1] illegal attack on any legal right may be warded off using force, including insults (that's an attack against personal honor). The force does not have to be proportional, only necessary (it must not be more severe than another one that would lead to success) and effective (it must…
Except abortion, strangely.
That's for historic reasons, Germany also had a long debate about abortion, and the compromise found was that abortion is illegal, but does not lead to criminal culpability.
According to that, it would be possible to use self-defense for the unborn child against the mother and doctors when she tries to abort.
Obviously, nobody wants burning abortion clinics, and the courts settled on that abortion cannot trigger self-defense.
That's un-principled, and I'm not aware of any legal expert actually justifying it on doctrinal grounds, but it's useful to keep the peace in the debate.
Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.
> Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Isn't that what this entire post is doing? In contrast, you're saying "oh they kicked you out therefore they must be right".
Yeah, dude, posting a video of you getting kicked out primarily hints that you were being an idiot of some kind. Occam's razor, simplest explanation and whatnot. Feel free and try to elaborate / prove otherwise. Also, FYI, CCC team has "Hausrecht" and if they tell you to leave you legally need to leave and they're well within rights to evict you.
There are exceptions for immediate threat to life, but you can't go wild and start kicking and punching someone for trespassing. That's assault and the video footage is possible evidence that could lead to charges.
I was a bouncer in a previous life, and there were very strict rules to follow after asking someone to leave.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It looks like a bunch of teenagers jumping someone. They don't look or behave like professional security agents. The bad chokehold one of them was attempting is actually banned from many police forces.
> They don't look or behave like professional security agents. Well they aren't. Security roles at congress are performed by volunteers and that's a good thing, they don't usually have to physically evict people.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
German law covers this in §32 StGB ("emergency defense"), which includes emergency assistance. If people were reasonably convinced that he was threatening others, they're done & out clear. P.S.: in German law, it's actually a crime to _not_ render assistance to others in danger - StGB §323c ("failure to render assistance")
German law has extraordinary self-defense statutes, both civil and criminal. The following applies to criminal self-defense: Any ongoing[1] illegal attack on any legal right may be warded off using force, including insults (that's an attack against personal honor). The force does not have to be proportional, only necessary (it must not be more severe than another one that would lead to success) and effective (it must…
Thanks for the fascinating explanation.