Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not offer to buy it?
Because I'm not just made of money
FreeDB Is Shutting Down
61–70 of 95 posts
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why not offer to buy it?
Because you'll never make it back. It will just be a money pit. You still need to keep it secure, host it, maintain it. And free users are much worse than paid users in terms of how entitled they feel so you can be prepared for a never ending stream of crap from people telling you how you should run it but who wouldn't pay $0.05 if the life of the site depended on it.
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess "archaic" is how we call actual useful online services these day. Websites and services that just work, without harassing the user, and do what they do well. If this is archaic, gosh, may we have more of these archaic things.
"Archaic" because FreeDB has been obsolete for ... 10 years or so? Quite a long time at any rate. MusicBrainz and Discogs are the contemporary equivalents, with MB having (in my opinion) higher quality data, and Discogs having better coverage of obscure Western releases.
I do love the formatting and structure of MB's Style Guidelines page, but it goes somewhere I dislike from the very first Principles page: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Principle/Error_correction...
"Artists sometimes choose to present names and titles in ways that deliberately contradict the rules of the language they're in (e.g. unorthodox spellings) and/or the MusicBrainz Style Guidelines. To describe the way we handle such choices, we use the term 'artist intent.' The general idea is that if an artist intended something to be written in a special way, then MusicBrainz should follow that intent. Unfortunately, it can be difficult to find out what an artist intended. If you want to claim that some deviation from the Style Guidelines should be considered artist intent, the burden of proof lies on you. A seeming error may be considered evidence of artist intent if it is consistently found on all of an artist's official releases. The best evidence would be a statement of intent by the artist (e.g. edit 6892422: https://musicbrainz.org/edit/6892422)."
Arguing with other music nerds on the Internet about which one of us has the Factually Correct Tags is not my idea of fun, and FreeDB avoids this problem by supporting multiple entries for any given disc. I totally understand how some people would consider that a burden, but I smile any time I get to choose from a few entries on FreeDB because one of them will always be substantially closer to my ideal. For me this usually manifests in ways such as (but not limited to):
- Genre tags. According to Discogs half my CDs belong in a single bucked labeled "Folk, World, & Country" https://www.discogs.com/genre/folk%2C+world%2C+%26+country
- Use of Artist vs AlbumArtist
- "Featured artists" in the title tag vs in the Artist tag (vs not listed at all?)
- "Year" tags when an album's slightly-staggered multi-region release overlaps a year boundary, or when a different label has re-released a bit-identical disc with packaging labeled a different year. I have that problem with a lot of my CDs from Sire or Tommy Boy Records where the post-1985 pressings are distributed under Reprise with a new date: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reprise_Records#Revival_and_Re...
- Title capitalization, my most frequent hassle. I have many CDs with track or artist names in ALL CAPS ENGLISH SHOUTING style. Super super common on Japanese releases, and both MB and Discogs used to have rules specifically banning anything except Camel Cased English Literary Title style.
I say "used to" because they have both gotten better on that issue, but a good percentage of the older data was entered under the old Title Case Only guidelines and remains that way. For an example, compare the same album described on Musicbrainz https://musicbrainz.org/release/041f87d6-6583-42cd-8cf3-5f4a... versus on a fandom wiki https://remywiki.com/Beatmania_HIROSHI_WATANABE_beat_indicat...
This is the relevant Musicbrainz guideline that didn't used to exist: https://musicbrainz.org/doc/Style/Language/Japanese
"Although the Japanese script has no capitalization, it is very common for Japanese titles to contain words in other scripts. Japanese artists have a tendency to choose capitalization and punctuation for aesthetic reasons; and to be very consistent regarding case over all releases. For this reason, words in the Latin script on a Japanese release should be in the same case as on the album art if other available sources, such as official discography or record label pages, are consistent; not normalized according to English or other capitalization standards."
But then _that_ guideline rubs me the wrong way, implying "capitalization and punctuation for aesthetic reasons" is exclusive to one culture, and letting record labels and marketing materials override the artistic work itself. Here's an example from Scotland: bis' 2007 CD+DVD greatest hits release.
- Title Cased on Musicbrainz: https://musicbrainz.org/release/45a14f8d-687d-4309-aa83-1004...
- Title Cased on Discogs: https://www.discogs.com/Bis-We-Are-Bis-From-Glasgow-Scotland...
- obviously aesthetically lower-cased on the actual album I'm holding in real life: https://i.imgur.com/hlaIRHj.jpg
The FreeDB system we're losing allows me to share my tags alongside the Title Cased version, so everyone can be happy: https://i.imgur.com/xrFj66A.png
Obviously any metadata service at all is perfectly fine for the 99% of people who just want some idea of what song they're listening to, and I realize I'm making my life way more difficult than it needs to be by caring about this to the extent I do, but music is too important and personal of a thing for me to settle for 99%. In a world of otherwise constant chaos my music library is my one zen garden. The single thing I curate to something asymptotically approaching my concept of perfection. A more accurate log of my own feelings and experiences than any words. Replicating the FreeDB data on my local network wont be hard, and that database will undoubtedly serve me well for years as I discover different things new to me despite their chronological age, but we're losing something way more special here than just the data and a crusty old Perl CGI script.
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But music on the web is very hard to make work as a long term thing, the bills have to be paid and even if the content is user generated you still need to supervise it and ensure that people don't pull tricks to vandalize it or destroy it. Absolutely, and it's thankless work too, like how the #1 user-agent string on FreeDB's statistics page is "FreedbDemo" straight from their example code project. Moderation is mor…
That makes good sense. Tagging consistency was a nightmare to get right and even though we did an ok job at it I was never 100% satisfied. If you want I can probably still dig up our database somewhere as a mysql dump and get it over to you. There might be something useful in there.
I was toying with reading/writing my EAC database file a few months ago, and this news reinvigorated my interest in getting something nice and local running to serve all my new and (many) old clients.
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because I'm not just made of money
I think it doesn't take too many more steps to answer your questions from here.
This corporate "has to be profitable" mentality needs to die. It's sad that we are in a place where even simple services require these supposedly ongoing maintenance costs, when they were originally designed as set-it-and-forget-it services
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#66I first read it as freeBSD!!
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've done it quite a bit and we're trying for more substance here.
I'm not strongly against flagging my comment, it's effectively void of substance (zero meaning). But if you flag zero meaning comments, you should even more flag negative meaning comments. By that I mean flagging most of logical fallacies, bullshits, cargo cults, echo chambers, and therefore half of comments on A(G)I topics.
By that I mean flagging most of logical fallacies I'm currently working on a tool to automate this.
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#67Disclaimer: I know nothing about what led to this situation Found it a bit sad to see this notice followed by a recent news headline saying the project was guaranteed to continue: Continuation of the free database guaranteed With the acquisition of the www.freedb.org domain MAGIX also takes on all duties regarding the worldwide freedb community
That headline is on web.archive.org as far back as 2014 (I didn't check earlier), so 'recent' may be a bit of a misnomer here.
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#68As a slightly unrelated note, how do these sort of databases actually get bootstrapped? I imagine as you get up and running, you'd end up with industry contacts, access to industry data sources and so on but I'd be interested to know how these sorts of things get started?
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? You've done it quite a bit and we're trying for more substance here.
Could you please not have a double standard and flag gamesbrainiac comment too? I'm not strongly against flagging my comment, it's effectively void of substance (zero meaning). But if you flag zero meaning comments, you should even more flag negative meaning comments. By that I mean flagging most of logical fallacies, bullshits, cargo cults, echo chambers, and therefore half of comments on A(G)I topics. By that I mea…
Re: FreeDB Is Shutting Down
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it doesn't take too many more steps to answer your questions from here.
And if they were willing to sell it for a reasonable amount (three-digit sum of money), I might, but most likely they won't. This corporate "has to be profitable" mentality needs to die. It's sad that we are in a place where even simple services require these supposedly ongoing maintenance costs, when they were originally designed as set-it-and-forget-it services
How can a "set-it-and-forget-it" web service exist from the service provider's POV? You always need to do small things like monitoring your servers and making sure they're all up-to-date and still working. This is ongoing maintenance cost. Additionally, you need electricity and some place to put your servers (be it virtual or physical).
Also, running something unprofitable out of your own pocket works as a hobby maybe, but not for a company at scale. You need to pay your employees. Even as a hobby it's problematic because you can only do it so many times until your regular income is exhausted.