What happens when your career becomes your whole identity • Hacker News Board

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#181

Post by t0astbread » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:05 AM UTC

sandoooo wrote: post #159

Here's a common sentiment amongst those with too much time on their hands: "When I am on my deathbed, I don't want to look back on my life with regret." The deathbed part of your life isn't even that long. Probably a week or something. And probably you'll spend much of it being distracted by morphine and excruciating pain, leaving no room for feeling sad about how shit your life was. Maybe you should just tell future…

That doesn't sound like a life sentiment you'd regret, even if you weren't on morphine.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#182

Post by MaulingMonkey » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:07 AM UTC

jblow wrote: post #116

Bad article, in part because of the incomplete title. It should be called "What happens when your career becomes your whole identity, when you don't like your job and think it's a waste of time". If this latter part is not true, there is much less of a problem, but for some reason current mainstream American culture wants to extrapolate all the way to "work should be compartmentalized and minimized". The problem is,…

> what would be the cost to our society, and to the individuals personally, if Einstein, Dirac, Pauli, or whoever had been told to cut down on the amount of time they spend thinking about physics stuff, they need to achieve good work/life balance.

I think Einstein's balancing of work (at the Patent Office) / life (his academic hobby in Physics) served him well.

> Nobody goes to the kung fu school and says "hey it's bad to exercise this much, you shouldn't kick so high or punch so fast, just make sure not to train that much, okay?"

Overtraining is absolutely a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overtraining

> in today's world, there are always proximal things you can do that are not damaging that will improve your job or your ability to do your job over time.

There's always an opportunity cost, even if those proximal things don't directly cause damage. For your impassioned knowledge worker, this might be not getting enough sleep, or not practicing your more general interpersonal skills, or not having enough downtime to let your subconcious mull over work problems from new angles. Working hard is great... to a point. Doing nothing but working hard can have some serious side effects, including to your productivity, that one should be cognizant of. Yes, even if you seem to enjoy your job.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#183

Post by turk73 » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:14 AM UTC

incompleteness wrote: post #71

cryptica wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me work is what I enjoy the most about life. I would do it for free - In fact I worked on open source projects for free for almost a decade. Including some successful/popular ones. That said I still feel burned out. I've come to realize that not only did the work I do for free not give me any financial advantage (which I expected), but the people who've hired me over the past few years don't seem to recognize tha…

You expect them to spontaneously have a spiritual epiphany about your "old soul"? Please man, stand up for yourself and learn the measures of business ethics.

Seriously. Here's how the software business works: There are people in management with MBAs who follow the same template no matter what company you are talking about. Management sees everyone non-management as part of the infrastructure. Developers are not human beings to them, they are a commodity. A developer is the same thing as a printer or an office chair to them. To be in management, you have to also be "good" at dehumanizing others, drinking a lot, saying "yes" to anything regardless of how ridiculous that thing is, and generally going along to get along.

I have job-hopped many times hoping to find a place that values developers. After 9-10 jobs I now realize my mistake. There aren't any. Every place I have worked is more or less as I just described to you. This is 21st century business. This is what they didn't explain in college. This is what is wrong with all business in general is this commodification of people--they don't care if you're a good developer or a 10X problem solver, most are happy with cheap. If the labor comes from India or China or anyplace with a contract that puts the laboror in a one-down position of servitude, all the better because those people can be exploited much further. Again, they don't even care about quality, they desire only "good enough."

Now, there is something worse. White males are considered less attractive people to hire. They are trying to punish us for being intelligent and successful. If you don't believe me, just wait, in time you will experience it yourself.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#184

Post by turk73 » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:15 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #80

incompleteness wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You expect them to spontaneously have a spiritual epiphany about your "old soul"? Please man, stand up for yourself and learn the measures of business ethics.

You're jumping to conclusions. I often asked for raises and tried to negotiate. I quit companies several times after they failed to promote me or they failed to give me a raise. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with business skills. Just bad luck. My last boss was so upset when I told him I was thinking of quitting that, in front of the whole company, he threatened to throw me out of the window but then he apolog…

It won't be any different anywhere else. You're a whore, I'm a whore. Get used to it or get out.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#185

Post by adamredwoods » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:17 AM UTC

For many years my career was my entire identity: I really, really wanted to be a designer. I thought it was the coolest thing EVER.

Then my son was born and I couldn't quite make this designer career/life that I wanted. I also realized I wasn't AMAZING at it, but I was GOOD at it. I couldn't quite get over that threshold. So therefore, not being at the top of my game and trying to feed my family became a problem.

I gave it up and became a programmer, which I don't attach myself too as much these days. I tell people I'm a parent first, board gamer second, programmer third. Whereas before, I was a designer-everything.

Life is always changing-- change with it.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#186

Post by alecbenzer » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:29 AM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #165

lettergram wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s interesting you say that... arguably I am an extreme workaholic, I work 70+ hours every week. I learn all I can on top of that. I get satisfaction from it, but it’s not my identity. If I was a janitor, I’d try to be the best janitor, because that’s what I like doing, I like being good at my job. I also plan 2 years out and intend to have $X wealth by specific deadlines. I’ll work harder to reach it. For me, as I…

> Remember investments grow exponentially- meaning you want to invest as much as you can while you’re young(er) *grow geometrically (with apologies, am pedant)

Per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth, geometric growth is exponential growth.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#187

Post by vitaflo » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:35 AM UTC

grecy wrote: post #105

nugget wrote: post #7

In my experience extreme workaholism can often be a way to avoid or defer major life decisions that someone doesn't want to make or even consciously recognize. High status careers are often structured, full of positive feedback loops, and well compensated, all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date, even (perha…

> all of which can strengthen the urge to defer existential questions about meaning, purpose, community, and identity until some unspecified future date I've quit my Software Engineering job twice now to spend years of my life doing whatever I want. First time I spent two years driving from Alaska to Argentina [1] and second time I just spent three years driving right around Africa [2]. Both times I had no job, no bo…

Wow, didn't expect to see you on HN. A friend of mine and I have been watching your Youtube vids for a while now. They're wonderful (and I'm also a bit jealous of the J30 camper on your Rubicon).

I myself took this past summer off to travel the western US. I started to have similar thoughts. It was very hard to go back to work after returning. Not because I didn't want to work (I did), but because of what you said, I realized it was so easy to fall into patterns and let your career direct everything.

I realized when I was traveling every day that I was the one directing, and it wasn't always easy. I had to deal with new things every day, sometimes great, sometimes difficult, but it really pushed me both mentally and physically. It was the best thing I ever did for myself.

One positive about returning to work though is I care a lot less about my career path. It allows me to be more open and honest at work. I don't fear not getting a promotion or losing my job. I also don't care as much about being "right". That helps my stress level a lot. But it also helps that I'm planning my next adventure as well (6 months in western Canada).

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#188

Post by wgaf » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:36 AM UTC

porknubbins wrote: post #164

vwcx wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment reminded me of Ralph Waldo Emerson’s thoughts - how wanderlust can keep us from leading meaningful lives. Worth a read: https://www.frontporchrepublic.com/2019/04/wanderlust-keeps-...

We probably need an antidote to the current instagram driven travel as consumption lifestyles, but I think they protest a little too much. Most people who go full nomad seem to realize quite well on their own after a year or two that no matter how much they learn, being always rootless and disconnected is not a great life and go back to build a life in one place. Most people aren’t privileged enough to even get this…

I wholeheartedly agree. I'm currently into my third year of traveling and third new country. I'm getting pretty exhausted of starting again (new engineering job, new environment and new friends) and I'm starting to yearn for roots. It does take it's toll on you as now nowhere feels like home.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#189

Post by sjg007 » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:37 AM UTC

friendlybus wrote: post #166

sjg007 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Existentialism is a trap. Camus pretty much nailed it but here it is in comic/essay form: https://moretothat.com/the-meaning-of-life-is-absurd/

Absurd nihilism is not a get out of jail free card for existentialism. It's a structure to answer the existential question in the same way Nietzsche's answers are a structure or any of the other philosophers. It has a fundamental axiom at the bottom and a logic that blossoms out of it. Saying there is 'no meaning' is to answer the question with avoiding the question to begin with. Writer's block / drawer's block happ…

The absurd is the tension between the search for meaning and the inability to find any. It doesn’t mean there is no meaning as a nihilist would argue. Nor does it imply destruction.

Camus’s absurd is more akin to Gödel incompleteness than nihilism.

Re: What happens when your career becomes your whole identity

#190

Post by alecbenzer » Sun, Dec 29, 2019, 3:45 AM UTC

JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #89

pertymcpert wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see this all the time, trying to live off dividends or low returns off something like $1m or so. The thing is if you retire early in 30 years time you’ve spent all of your returns and now inflation has eroded your principal. I don’t see why you wouldn’t just keep working in a low stress easy job, part time or something, and continue to build savings.

The withdrawal rate isn't a fixed $40k. It's $40k, adjusted for inflation, annually. Year 1 is $40k, Year 2 is $41.2k (assuming 3% inflation). Purchasing power stays constant over time. Though I didn't specify the portfolio composition, most of my holding are US Large Cap, which are the 2nd best performing asset class below small cap: https://www.compoundvalue.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/IR_... , but both classes…

Taking out more than $40k/year erodes your principal though, I thought that was pertymcpert's point?

Like, if you've got $800k and can reliably earn 5%, as long as you're withdrawing only $40k you're good. But if you withdraw $41k one year, your principal is now only $799k. Next year if you need $42k, the return from your $799k is only $39,950, so your principal goes down to $796,950, etc.

From a quick spreadsheet, if inflation is 2% annually and you can get 5% on your principal, you deplete your $800k in ~32 years.

Doesn't seem too hard to fix with some supplemental income here and there?