Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year • Hacker News Board

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#51

Post by appleshore » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 8:37 PM UTC

jakelazaroff wrote: post #9

> On Monday, Rivian announced it had raised $1.3 billion in its fourth funding round of the year, led by T. Rowe Price, bringing its total for 2019 to nearly $2.9 billion. > Rivian has been quietly developing vehicles for a decade, but it seized the industry’s attention in late 2018, when it unveiled a pair of eye-catching, high-end electric trucks. Rivian raised $2.9 billion over four funding rounds in the span of o…

Trying to solve manufacturing while inevitable improvements to battery chemistries and electric motors proceed, is a viable strategy. They’re not inventing a new magic box nor disrupting the art of office leasing, they’re building electric vehicles.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#52

Post by seriesf » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 8:40 PM UTC

Zanni wrote: post #16

xenospn wrote: post #5

I think most hype over EVs is a direct result of the Tesla stock price and people upset they missed their chance to buy it when it was $20. Probably nothing to do with Rivian or their tech - they just want "the next Tesla".

No, the hype is over the vehicles themselves. EVs are the future. And, as William Gibson famously said, "The future is already here, it's just unevenly distributed." Once you experience the quiet, convenience and power of an EV, it's hard to go back to an ICE car. We're already past the early-adopter phase. Improvements in price, range and charging infrastructure (already happening) will capture everyone else.

The EV market has already hit a plateau, suggesting that it has exhausted the customer base for very expensive cars with short ranges. September 2019 sales were down (US and global) vs 2018, and 2019 Q3 sales were down vs Q3 2018 as well (also for the US and globally). These sales figures suggest that EVs need something new, like lower prices or more utility, to start growing again.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#53

Post by xenospn » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 8:52 PM UTC

CharlesW wrote: post #11

xenospn wrote: post #5

I think most hype over EVs is a direct result of the Tesla stock price and people upset they missed their chance to buy it when it was $20. Probably nothing to do with Rivian or their tech - they just want "the next Tesla".

By "over EVs", did you mean "over EV companies other than Tesla"? Because I'd strongly disagree that EVs are over-hyped.

Yes.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#54

Post by xenospn » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

api wrote: post #28

xenospn wrote: post #5

I think most hype over EVs is a direct result of the Tesla stock price and people upset they missed their chance to buy it when it was $20. Probably nothing to do with Rivian or their tech - they just want "the next Tesla".

Have you driven one? Energy is 1/4 the price or less and efficiency is better even if your electricity comes from fossil fuels because small heat engines suck. Torque curve is better. Little maintenance, no oil changes, quiet, better handling. EVs are objectively superior in every single way except recharge speed amd range, and the gap has closed for the latter and is closing for the former. ICE is dead except for lo…

Yes. I was referring to the 'hype over EV companies'. Bad phrasing on my part.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#55

Post by jfim » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 8:56 PM UTC

unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's strange about this? When it doesn't have anything to show investors shy away. Prove its chops with some impressive prototypes and investors rush in.

The strange thing is running a business for a decade without bringing a product to market. Prototypes be damned, they aren’t revenue.

It's manufacturing, not software. While one can produce one million copies of a binary for cheap and no lead time, producing one million physical objects requires setting up production lines, quality control checks, rework stations, warehousing, supply chains and controls, and so on.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#56

Post by x3haloed » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

nickik wrote: post #46

syshum wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> truck for its utility which one makes more sense Anyone that used thier Truck for actual work will tell you the CyberTruck is 100% not practical as a work Truck for many reasons not the least of which is the Bed (or Vault) design. The CyberTruck seems to appeal to Hipsters and Urbanites that want a "Urban" truck, you are not going to be seeing the CyberTruck on the Farm or Jobsite Ohh it also appeals to Gen X's th…

The only actual reason I have heard is that Cybertruck makes it harder to load from the side. However I have heard why the utility of the frunk, integrated Ramp, the automatic cover, active suspension and so on would not make up for that.

Right. You tell me which truck you'd rather load boxes and furniture into. https://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/TeslaElectri...

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#57

Post by x3haloed » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #34

x3haloed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tank turn is not a gimmick. Super useful on offroad trails where space to turn around is quite limited, which is important when you get to a part of the trail that is impassible or dangerous.

Many full-size trucks are never driven off-road or carrying/towing heavy loads, but the advertising for them always mentions these features. Some people call that using gimmicks to sell trucks.

So features are gimmicks when they're only useful to a subset and buyers? Even if they're very useful to a subset of buyers? That would make towing a gimmick.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#58

Post by OnlineGladiator » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

jfim wrote: post #55

unlinked_dll wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strange thing is running a business for a decade without bringing a product to market. Prototypes be damned, they aren’t revenue.

It's manufacturing, not software. While one can produce one million copies of a binary for cheap and no lead time, producing one million physical objects requires setting up production lines, quality control checks, rework stations, warehousing, supply chains and controls, and so on.

Yes, but before you produce one million physical objects it's good to do a test run with one to see how strong the market demand is. It's not a foregone conclusion that their product will sell at high enough margins and quantity to be successful. You don't automate something before you validate it. Even Tesla made this mistake - they tried to automate their assembly line before they had the assembly line figured out. It's one of the few things Elon Musk did that he later admitted was stupid on his part.

Tesla didn't start with a mass-market vehicle. They started with an extremely high margin, low volume sports car. They then transitioned to a not-quite-as-high margin, not-quite-as-low volume luxury car. They are currently trying to make moderate margin, high volume sedans with the Model 3, but it's uncertain they can currently sell those profitably.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#59

Post by Marsymars » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

api wrote: post #28

xenospn wrote: post #5

I think most hype over EVs is a direct result of the Tesla stock price and people upset they missed their chance to buy it when it was $20. Probably nothing to do with Rivian or their tech - they just want "the next Tesla".

Have you driven one? Energy is 1/4 the price or less and efficiency is better even if your electricity comes from fossil fuels because small heat engines suck. Torque curve is better. Little maintenance, no oil changes, quiet, better handling. EVs are objectively superior in every single way except recharge speed amd range, and the gap has closed for the latter and is closing for the former. ICE is dead except for lo…

> I don't understand why anyone gets anything else.

Presumably different reasons for different people, but my dealbreakers are a) I rent and park on the street in a suburb where there's no charging infrastructure and b) every time I run the numbers, they're still too expensive. (e.g. a used Leaf runs about double what my used ICE was, and it's too much of a difference for savings on fuel and oil changes to make up.)

edit: The range is also a real concern. I get several dozen days of snowboarding in per winter and frequently go hiking, backpacking and climbing in the summer. Ski hill parking lots, hostel parking lots, and trail heads don't have charging infrastructure. I'd need 400km of range at -20C as a minimum viable EV.

Re: Rivian's platform approach to electric vehicles helped it raise $3B this year

#60

Post by jakelazaroff » Sat, Dec 28, 2019, 9:14 PM UTC

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #14

jakelazaroff wrote: post #9

> On Monday, Rivian announced it had raised $1.3 billion in its fourth funding round of the year, led by T. Rowe Price, bringing its total for 2019 to nearly $2.9 billion. > Rivian has been quietly developing vehicles for a decade, but it seized the industry’s attention in late 2018, when it unveiled a pair of eye-catching, high-end electric trucks. Rivian raised $2.9 billion over four funding rounds in the span of o…

What's strange about this? When it doesn't have anything to show investors shy away. Prove its chops with some impressive prototypes and investors rush in.

I am skeptical that Rivian has "proven its chops". Consider Magic Leap, a company with a some impressive prototypes that used its $2.6 billion of funding to… sell 6,000 headsets, out of a goal of one million.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/12/06/report-magic-leaps-early-d...