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Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

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Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#21

Post by Someone1234 »

haskaalo wrote: post #5

Not from United States. However, wouldn't it increase the sales of the black market?

I'd imagine people wanting to bypass this would still consume retail tobacco products via a 21+ proxy agent. I just think the cost of paying off a proxy would be cheaper than the cost of buying via some black market vendor (and low risk, since you're likely getting the real product via someone you likely know and trust).

Or just via common fake IDs that certain vendors will happily take, since it provides the vendor just enough legal protection for reasonable doubt.

Keep in mind that the new market for black market products is quite small (only people between 18-20), and the cost/risk of setting it up quite high. It could happen, but I think there are better alternatives to bypass this block-aid. It isn't really comparable to prohibition or the war on drugs, as those were/are global bans Vs. the entire population.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#22

Post by sumedh »

hellisothers wrote: post #12
alexfromapex wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s very stupid. When you are an adult you deserve to be able to make your own decisions. This is a great example of Congress going against the wishes of a huge portion of the voting population and “telling them what’s good for them”. It’s tacit erosion of freedom under the guise of something helpful and makes me ashamed of our Congress.

Nobody is an island, your freedom to make poor life choices is my liability to support as your health deteriorates and my tax dollars have to pay for the externalities of tobacco consumption. It’s not being outlawed, it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience.

> it’s being delayed until you can make better life choices with the wisdom of age and experience

and yet you can join the army and kill some people before you have the wisdom of age and experience?

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#23

Post by oefrha »

alexfromapex wrote: post #8
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age gating is a bit stupid, but in the case of cigarettes, I'd be perfectly happy if no one of any age was able to use them, with exceptions for people who are already addicted.

It’s very stupid. When you are an adult you deserve to be able to make your own decisions. This is a great example of Congress going against the wishes of a huge portion of the voting population and “telling them what’s good for them”. It’s tacit erosion of freedom under the guise of something helpful and makes me ashamed of our Congress.

Except when you smoke cigarettes the people around you suffer from it too.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#24

Post by Gatsky »

adrr wrote: post #2

It is bizarre we have our vice age at 21 but the age of adulthood is 18. You are responsible enough to vote, serve in the military and be charged as an adult in a court law but not responsible enough to drink or smoke.

This is a ban on sale, ie a ban on commercial entities profiting from selling or producing tobacco products to <21 year olds. Since when do we need to protect the right to buy cigarettes in a convenient fashion? Last time I checked there isn’t anything about access to branded tobacco products in the UN charter of human rights. Nicotine is stupidly addictive. Smoking causes a long list of health problems, and when they happen society bears the cost while the tobacco companies profit. What does this have to do with the age of voting? If you want to smoke at 18, you can grow your own tobacco plant and damn well smoke it.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#25

Post by Someone1234 »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #18

There's a few comments about the military age being 18 in the USA. I'm not American, and live in a country where the drinking age is 18 (and believe it should stay that way), but it seems to me like maybe the enlistment age should be raised. 18 isn't old enough to be signing up to fight and die overseas. Do we really want people going straight from the football field to the battlefield?

Some countries let people join at 18 but they cannot fight until 20 or older. Essentially the first years are spent in military school and or in a kind of reserve role. It is an interesting compromise that still let's people join up instead of college around 18/19 but with fewer moral hazards.

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#26

Post by alexfromapex »

hprotagonist wrote: post #20
alexfromapex wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why stop with cigarettes? They can just tell us how to live in every facet of our daily lives.

I bet you have Real Strong Opinions about seatbelts, too.

Yeah let’s raise the driving age to 21

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#28

Post by rolltiide »

alexfromapex wrote: post #8
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age gating is a bit stupid, but in the case of cigarettes, I'd be perfectly happy if no one of any age was able to use them, with exceptions for people who are already addicted.

It’s very stupid. When you are an adult you deserve to be able to make your own decisions. This is a great example of Congress going against the wishes of a huge portion of the voting population and “telling them what’s good for them”. It’s tacit erosion of freedom under the guise of something helpful and makes me ashamed of our Congress.

Honestly the thing I hate about the rest of the world is the second hand smoke

It hurts my eyes, I know its bad for my lungs, and its aggravating to see the attractive people doing it to blend it, to me its like they are stuck in the 2000s

Re: Age limit now 21 across US for cigarettes, tobacco products

#30

Post by Someone1234 »

seibelj wrote: post #3

Why stop there? Why not 35, or 50? Or an outright ban? We say that 18 year olds can die in a war, and be sentenced to death for a crime. But they can’t vape or buy a beer? 21 is the new 18, enjoy making more children out of adults.

I feel like people that make this argument are really playing with fire. It is meant to be hyperbole to show us that this middle-ground position is irrational, but all it is really doing is reminding us that this middle-ground is a middle-ground and that the ideal is a near complete ban of the addictive cancer sticks.

A lot of people have argued for a "age limit" that essentially increases as one generation ages until it is effectively unlawful for future generations (e.g. age 21 in 2020, 22 in 2021, 31 in 2030, 41 in 2040, etc).

So why 21? Why indeed. Tobacco is no less addictive or deadly at 21, I guess the hope is people will be smarter by then and realize the life-long potential impact of STARTING (which the science does support[0]).

[0] http://www.nationalacademies.org/hmd/Reports/2015/TobaccoMin...

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