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Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

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Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#31

A person in our family is a specialized nurse. Two years of school, then some more training. $60hr any hour they "wish" to work. Saturdays/Sundays are $90hr, so is any hour after 8 hours. The demand is so high he just rejects work. If he wants to work in American Samoa or Miami: hired. I hired a person to install a garage door. $900 for an hour of work. My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. I will call ag…

Skilled manual work. Cannot be outsourced.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#32
Hopefully the US can take a page from the Germans and institute vocational schools. We look down on plumbers, electricians, etc. We constantly couch our praise of them with phrases like, "Wait until your knee gives". I have a MSCS from GA Tech. I've got about 18 years official experience. I get paid $95/hr. Plumbers? $120/hr. Electricians are about the same. We need them. Let's teach them. Maybe with apprenticeships.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#33

There is a line of thinking that college tuition should rise until the ROI on higher education drops to zero, using some twisted Pareto logic. I would consider such an outcome to be neither optimal nor efficient.

This is happening with education, healthcare and housing.

It's a logical mechanism of near unlimited credit creation to absorb all productivity gains for capture by rentiers.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#34

A person in our family is a specialized nurse. Two years of school, then some more training. $60hr any hour they "wish" to work. Saturdays/Sundays are $90hr, so is any hour after 8 hours. The demand is so high he just rejects work. If he wants to work in American Samoa or Miami: hired. I hired a person to install a garage door. $900 for an hour of work. My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. I will call ag…

You need some better contractors. I have multiple plumbers with same day service for $95 service calls. My garage door was installed for $400 and it took an afternoon.

Obviously prices vary.

I can make a living with a trade skill, but data shows I’m more likely to make a lot more with a college degree. You have billionaire dropouts and baristas with phds. But on average, degree nets you a lot of lifetime income.

Maybe that will change.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#35
I would have paid hundreds of thousands for my Physics degree if they'd have loaned me it.

The thing is that it makes sense if the degree leads to a dramatically higher income and you actually use the chance.

If I'd stayed in my hometown instead of moving to London, it'd still be worth it, but probably to the tune of 100-200K.

All of these numbers are probably lower than the benefit I'm likely to derive over my working life but 18 year old me would have risk adjusted.

Across the population of course, the balance changes dramatically, because huge numbers of people are terminally skint, working unskilled jobs, etc.

Most people probably shouldn't get a degree.

Who actually wants to be 'most people' when they're an 18 year old?

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grad school is often funded in the U.S. (PhD at least, masters not so much)

Even then, depending on your speciality the economic return from a PhD is iffy since you're losing 5+ years of industry wages and experience.

Few people pursuing PhDs are doing so to maximize earning potential.

Disregarding the mental toll of a PhD (one problem being that too many people want to be paid to think than there are available positions), I totally disagree with the parent poster's claim that graduate school is a rip-off. Just being in an an academic environment, being able to take classes, & studying around really smart people and doing research at the highest academic level is a really great experience & makes the stress worth it.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#37

A person in our family is a specialized nurse. Two years of school, then some more training. $60hr any hour they "wish" to work. Saturdays/Sundays are $90hr, so is any hour after 8 hours. The demand is so high he just rejects work. If he wants to work in American Samoa or Miami: hired. I hired a person to install a garage door. $900 for an hour of work. My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. I will call ag…

Skilled manual work. Cannot be outsourced.

> Skilled manual work. Cannot be outsourced.

But it can be dramatically diluted through lenient immigration policies (and that's exactly what happened).

Bottom line, you have to be clever stay on your toes to make it in today's economy, and even then you need lots of luck and excellent health. UBI would result in a much more just society.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#38
post #34

A person in our family is a specialized nurse. Two years of school, then some more training. $60hr any hour they "wish" to work. Saturdays/Sundays are $90hr, so is any hour after 8 hours. The demand is so high he just rejects work. If he wants to work in American Samoa or Miami: hired. I hired a person to install a garage door. $900 for an hour of work. My plumber wont show up for a 30 minute $300 job. I will call ag…

You need some better contractors. I have multiple plumbers with same day service for $95 service calls. My garage door was installed for $400 and it took an afternoon. Obviously prices vary. I can make a living with a trade skill, but data shows I’m more likely to make a lot more with a college degree. You have billionaire dropouts and baristas with phds. But on average, degree nets you a lot of lifetime income. Mayb…

[deleted]

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#39

I have a degree from a no-name university in New Zealand. I'd do it again for a few pragmatic reasons. 1: Lots of companies will reject you on sight without a degree. I don't think it's a good thing, but it is reality. 2: With a degree your ability to move overseas dramatically improves. I moved to America after graduating. I flat out couldn't have done that without a degree. Points based systems immigration systems…

You didn't go to uni in the USA and the paper is by the St Louis Fed on USA grads. You took your degree in a country with far lower inequality and better inward education investment, and then jumped over to work in a country that doesn't tax people enough to support USA students. I'd imagine that is pretty good value.

The good thing too is if you get really sick you can go back home for the free healthcare.

The US really benefits from immigrants that were trained by poorer countries. I too moved here, my chronically ill relative is still at home.

Re: Is College Still Worth It? The New Calculus of Falling Returns [pdf]

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skilled manual work. Cannot be outsourced.

> Skilled manual work. Cannot be outsourced. But it can be dramatically diluted through lenient immigration policies (and that's exactly what happened). Bottom line, you have to be clever stay on your toes to make it in today's economy, and even then you need lots of luck and excellent health. UBI would result in a much more just society.

UBI would just feed directly into rents because that's how prices are set.

UBI would require land value tax to ensure the public value is capture for public spending. UBI alone is a land speculator wet dream and Yang is totally wrong to be pushing it without LVT. Yes in the middle of nowhere it can help, but most people are in cities and rents will rise there to current rent + UBI amount.

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