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I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

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241–250 of 463 posts

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#241

> While other parents cheerfully promise that “if you get in, we’ll figure out the money part,” That is literally the worst mindset to go in to this about. I profoundly want to see college be free for all, and debt zeroed out. Failing that rather utopian vision, the smart bet is to get a degree that you can pay off in under 10 years without a miracle. I plan to save up enough to help my kid out, which might well invo…

There is no free. Free means Janet's dad who didn't go to college get to pay additional so Bill's son goes for free. When resources are free, they become either worthless or completely over-utilized. If you make college free, that means colleges will still charge for classes, still charge for books, still charge for dorm rooms, etc. They'll send their bills to the government, to pay with increased tax dollars. They'l…

> Looks like a major redistribution of wealth, from taxpayers to educational institutions. :-/ This is my surprised face.

This is my beef with free college. It's a huge amount of public money going to benefit people who don't need it, all for an extremely tenuous promise of upward mobility. Kids growing up in real urban poverty aren't going to college, tuition-free or not. The hurdles keeping them from upward mobility are happening at a much earlier point than the tuition payment deadline.

And the lower middle class kids who might go if college were tuition free--are they really being helped? AOC graduated with a BA cum laude from Boston University and went back to bar-tending afterward. Absolutely no criticism of that--it's honest work. But what does that story--which is common--say about the value of a BA from a college outside the top tier? I studied for the LSAT in Atlanta. I was working as an engineer at the time--all my Georgia Tech classmates had gotten good jobs in Atlanta within six months of graduation. But the folks in my LSAT class, who mostly graduated from places like Georgia State with a BA, were doing things like bar-tending, or administrative roles they could easily have done without a college degree. One of my friends works at a brewery--he says that all but one of the guys bottling/packing the beer have college degrees. Is college really adding value for these people? Or would making it free just transfer wealth from taxpayers to college professors and administrators, while graduates end up doing the same jobs they'd be qualified to do without a degree?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no free. Free means Janet's dad who didn't go to college get to pay additional so Bill's son goes for free. When resources are free, they become either worthless or completely over-utilized. If you make college free, that means colleges will still charge for classes, still charge for books, still charge for dorm rooms, etc. They'll send their bills to the government, to pay with increased tax dollars. They'l…

You should realize that primary and secondary school are already provided "free" to anyone, and the reasons that works are just as valid for college. There's nothing magically impossible about using taxpayer money to provide 16 years of education instead of 12.

It benefits us as a country to have an electorate who can read and write and have a basic understanding of civics and history. It doesn't necessarily appear to benefit us the same way to have a bunch of folks spend 4 years getting English degrees to make mom and dad happy.

There are a lot of benefits to college, but a lot of those benefits go away when college stops becoming a choice and starts becoming mandated state education.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#243
Uh, school is more than education, specially in art, and more about connections.

For 40k I would consider three years abroad. I think this would cover cost in a good university in Europe. This would give invaluable experience living abroad, give top class education and probably be within budget.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#244

My sister and I basically copied what our parents did. I got a degree in engineering like my dad (but pivoted to data science), and my sister got a degree in elementary education like my mom. She works much harder than me but earns significantly less and frequently comments about how massive of a mistake it was to go into teaching. I'm not really sure what the lesson is here other than that the world isn't fair. From…

People are not compensated to their value, they are compensated to their rarity. A lot of people can (in theory) teach elementary aged kids, a lot fewer folks can architect skyscrapers or perform brain surgery.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#246
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

You can be completely average talent wise, get a job at an ad agency and 5-7 years later be a creative director making bank. Art school can actually be a great investment if you want to do creative work for hire.

An art education is very different from a design education, though they are very often separate tracks at the same institution.

IME, the people that wanted to go to art school, weren't interested in what is taught design school, and vice versa.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#247
For many degrees, there could simply be some sort of national board exam (or a series of them), administered by a testing center (like Prometric). Students can study on their own then pay to present the exams. Since the best lectures and material can be obtained cheaply or for free (Khan, Coursera, etc), "college" debt would be massively reduced. I don't speak for degrees that truly require lab work, like STEM.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#248
Sometimes fancy art school is worth it, though. My sister decided to go to CalArts and stomach the high tuition costs. She dropped out two years later after receiving a job offer from Sony Pictures, and Netflix ended up headhunting her a few months later. Now she's debt-free and making a comfortable living, all from the connections and internships she got from CalArts. Sometimes, a name brand school is worth it compared to a cheap school "with a great art program".

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#249
I personally think that as the are cohort that finished school with the dot com crash then followed up crushed under the weight of the housing crash, start to send kids to college, there will be a general reckoning.

While my wife and I are doing well financially and professionally at the moment, these events have made us distrustful of the current economic model of low taxes and high wealth, which I am practically certain leads to these hours of economic malaise. We had our first at a relatively young age, and the realities of our wealth and savings are not as good as the author of this piece... We only have one salary, which is a particularly huge benefit.

Regardless, one can only hope we decide that a well educated populace is such an improvement to general welfare that we don't continually stuck the costs of raising children on the parents alone. I know that there are tax benefits, but those are a joke.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#250
post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

It is impossible to predict how your child's life is going to turn out. I know a bunch of people who are making great livings with degrees in supposedly "low earning potential" fields like art, English, etc. Some are web developers, some are medical professionals, some are social media experts, some are entrepreneurs, etc. Who knows what the future of the economy will hold.

IMO it is better for parents to stick to logistics and standards, like "this is how much we can spend on college" and "this is how hard I expect you to work."

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