Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

slate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 463 posts

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#61

Post by Zyst »

themagician wrote: post #50
abnry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

You can be completely average talent wise, get a job at an ad agency and 5-7 years later be a creative director making bank. Art school can actually be a great investment if you want to do creative work for hire.

This is a weird ponzi-scheme like comment.

If you are a creative director, you have people working under you.

How do you all get to be creative directors?

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#62

Post by BeetleB »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #28
crmrc114 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why many doctors in the US get their basic medical schooling outside of the US. (Often in the Caribbean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the... )

That generally is not why US born doctors go to medical school outside of the US.

> That generally is not why US born doctors go to medical school outside of the US.

Everyone I know who did it did so for two reasons, and this is one of them. Getting into medical school means tonnes of debt - similar to art school, perhaps. And if you don't do well enough at your residency, or at your medical school prior to that, you are completely screwed in a way those who went to art school are.

Going to the Caribbean (or any other country) for medical school has its risks, though. You are treated differently when applying for residency programs, and need a much much higher score on the USMLE than someone trained in the US to match. But if you don't, you're not stuck with crippling debt.

Oh, and the other reason? Quicker to graduate. Most countries allow you to enter medical school right after high school.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#63

Post by russdill »

seattle_spring wrote: post #48
crmrc114 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why many doctors in the US get their basic medical schooling outside of the US. (Often in the Caribbean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_schools_in_the... )

Caribbean schools are even more expensive than US med schools. A contact of mine is graduating from Ross University with $550k of debt. Students go there because their bar for incoming students is lower, and not at all because they're cheaper.

It's the same with veterinarians as well.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#64

Post by will4274 »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #56
helen___keller wrote: post #20

The author briefly transitions from arts schools to engineering schools which- in my opinion- are a totally different beast. If you graduate with 30k-50k in debt and a six figure salary then it's not too bad

But..you can get a six figure salary with an in-state public school too.

Sometimes. The fancy consulting firms place a huge premium on those elite private schools and pay huge salaries. University prestige matters for jobs and salary, even if it doesn't matter for how much you learn.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#65

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

ameister14 wrote: post #36
toolslive wrote: post #11

What I don't understand is: why don't they go to a university in Europe? I just checked for my alma mater: tuition fee is ~500 euro for 1 year. You pay about 4k in rent per year (this is probably too high an estimate). The level of education is high, and the programs are available in English.

Tuition for EU residents is usually not the same as tuition for American students. It's still cheaper than school in the US, but not by nearly as much

University in Germany is just as cheap for foreigners as it is for Germans. It's only a few hundred Euros per semester, and comes with benefits like cheap public transportation and subsidized meals.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#66

Post by pen2l »

falcolas wrote: post #57
abnry wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a place for encouraging students to go to art school... the catch is that they need to have obvious signs of world class talent.

The world we live in is capable of providing a living wage to artists (and writers, and sculptors, etc.). It’s not common, and its not always the most comfortable living, but it exists. Pixar, Riot Games, Marvel, and XKCD would not exist without full time artists (even those with above-average-but-not-world-class talent).

XKCD is created by a guy who is ... not exactly an "artist". Well, he's an artist because he draws, but he is foremost an engineer, and he went to school for a STEM education. He had a tech job at NASA in his past: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randall_Munroe

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#67

Post by falcolas »

refurb wrote: post #37
non-entity wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they want to live in a 6000 sq ft house in Malibu, then they shouldn't get a degree in 5th Century Aerobics. I mean if that's what they want, you might as well tell them to be born into another family because you'll never enough for that as a wage worker regardless of the degree.

Doctors and lawyers could afford a house in Malibu and they are wage workers.

Not all doctors. Not all lawyers. Only the cream of the crop in those respective fields, and only after 20+ years in the field.

Of course, that assumes a normal mortgage, with no “payments go to interest only” or other malarkey.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#68

Post by sethammons »

Some eye openers there for me. They saved 40k for their kid and on average parents save 18k for their kids?! We saved exactly $0.00 for my oldest. My middle kid is a freshman. $0.00. And my youngest is 9, also $0.00.

The number one thing you must save for is your own retirement. I just this last year started funding that adequately due to life circumstances. We are just recently able to help out with education costs and do plan to open 529 plans this year.

The (very massive) downside to not having saved for the kid's education is that for us to help now, we are spending like nearly $30k a year to cover our oldest's classes. She is working part time and saving, and we are asking her to pay us back 50%. The other option is loans. We would have to cosign for them anyway, so no reason to use her poor credit. But having recently paid off all our debts sans a small mortgage, I'm not excited to take out any more debts.

I had told all my kids since they were young that they were going to pay for their own college. It is hard to follow through with that when the loans they could get are terrible and I still have to cosign for them. Glad I finally have the income to help.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#69

Post by gen220 »

hajile wrote: post #25
vsskanth wrote: post #4

Serious question: how does a parent deal with their high school kids wanting to pursue college in a field with a low probability of high lifetime earnings (art, theatre etc.) ? Especially when they are middle class without generational wealth to insulate themselves

Does art school make a person a better artist? I would argue not really -- especially in a day in age where so much advanced art instruction is available for free. When a company or person wants to commission you, do they look at your degree or your portfolio? The only real benefit of art college is more contacts to sell on your personality. $300,000 for that $75,000/yr college is a huge marketing budget for someone…

My girlfriend and I have had this discussion a lot, because she went to a top tier art school. I think you might be underrating three factors in your reasoning:

One is the value of very direct feedback and guidance from seasoned, respected professionals. The class sizes in top art programs are very small, and most classes have a frequent, intense “critique” portion where the professor and students tear apart each others’ work. It’s like 3 years of intense code review from other talented programmers, led by a staff engineer. It’s hard to put a sticker price on this, because you largely get out what you put in, but it’s immense and I’d argue unique to a top tier art school.

The second is that you’re living in a high pressure environment of professors and peers who always seem to be pushing you to be better in some dimension. It’s not conducive for everyone, but if you have a strong competitive drive, it can make you very productive.

Finally, the fundamentals in design and art are insanely important. My girlfriend took 4 semesters of typography, because the ROI there is legitimately defensible. Most people skip this stuff when they’re self teaching, and it shows to people who know better.

You’re right that portfolios are of paramount importance, but good companies will make you defend your portfolio pieces, and ask you what you’d do differently with different constraints or resources. An art school training will humble you to the idea that there is another way, and arm you with ideas for alternative solutions. It’s subtle, but it comes out in interviews and on the job. I’d argue it’s similar to software engineering in that way.

Re: I killed my teenager’s fancy college dreams

#70

Post by BeetleB »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #33

I wish the headline was: "I Helped My Teenager Grow Up. You Should, Too." Student debt sucks. But the myth that these institutions are somehow kidnapping high school students and forcing them to take on massive loans is a myth that needs to be crushed. The market has been flood with cheap easy to get money. Families are lining up to bite off more than they should or could. This (i.e., demand) drives up cost. The cycl…

> But the myth that these institutions are somehow kidnapping high school students and forcing them to take on massive loans is a myth that needs to be crushed.

Well, yes. Same with the push for credit card advertising being banned on campuses. Same with the ban on tobacco advertising. And so on.

Post reply on HN