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Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a Christian, the same situation could simply be trusting in Divine Providence and not in ourselves or others for security (which so often fails us anyway). In that case, it would be a virtue.

Huh? Could you explain with more detail what you mean?

FWIW I'm a Christian and I can't make out what he's getting at either.

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#72
post #58
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are accepting / rejecting work in 20 min units of work, you might want to rethink things a bit. The micromanagement level at play here would make any work/life balance out of whack. Maybe the question to ask is — can I start bidding on work in units of 1-2 week increments? You’d still have multiple smaller tasks in that block. But that would start to give you more flexibility in how to organize you days.

in 95% of my income I'm not paid per hour/time (rarely I have tasks paid per hour, which I usually don't like), but per size of the task, I just use time/money cost for easier understanding after calculation, if I average my income my minimum hourly rate would be between 60-200USD depending on how efficient I am with certain task and the tasks are assigned by currently 2nd biggest company in their field (over 100bln…

Think hiring people might not be as hard as you think. I've done consulting for a company in Shanghai and there was minimal paperwork as we both were professional about it, set expectations clearly, and documented them. There would be some checking but you've got some margin with 60-200USD hourly rate, if you can start to outsource some work then checking it will become less of a burden. With deadlines, having someone in a different timezone may help. You can also outsource some of the paperwork. You might want to consider this regardless of time off, because you sound like you could probably make more by taking a break and also looking for more clients. If you have someone you trust then you won't worry so much about losing the existing client.

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#73

This subject probably requires it's own HN post but let me just put this here since it's on my mind. There is a hierarchy of ways that you can provide value to a client. I call it the TKPV ladder. Each letter represents what you provide in return for compensation. T stands for time. At this level, your client pays you by the hour, day, week, or even minute. Your value is measured by the time you put in. This is the l…

That's a really interesting insight thank you.

I am just putting some thoughts together for what we ought to be doing for the big Enterprise SEO client we mostly work for.

I hope you wont mind if I borrow this

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#74
I have been self employed for 20 years. I used to put my work first, and in 2012 I did a serious burnout and nearly died (common virus can make a LOT of damage when you are exhausted).

So I changed my view of life. Now I consider myself on vacation all the time, and work comes second. I work less and get roughly the same amount of money because I plan projects better and select only the ones that pays well.

But my kids are first. For example, it's 11AM here and I am still playing with my daughter and her Xmas duplo set she got. But after dinner I'll work for 4h and be very productive because I am well rested and know exactly what I will do.

The main thing is planning to not be overwhelmed. It takes time and also you should not fear saying no or "it will take six month" to a customer. They are also happier because I am more consistent and regular in my advancements.

Be well, and take care of yourself.

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#75
post #60
post #14

There are alternative employment opportunities out there. You shouldn’t have negotiate for time with your family - this is a form of bullying by your employer.

not with income I have, I earn 5 times my city average income and 2-3 times my position average income and I'm prety sure this won't last for much more years, so I want to bank on it if I would earn much less I would value mu spare time much more than I value it now currently with this opportunity, I don't know anyone who bought their first apartment without mortgage and help of parents in my age and is planning to b…

I'm sure you did think about this, but are you calculating this 2-3x fairly? I notice many people don't. Especially (disgruntled) EU people who think they make very little compared to their US counterparts in tech. In the EU, when you are comparing your self employed income with published averages for your city for that position, you are usually comparing apples and pears. When self employed, you need to deduct a lot of things that are automatic when you are not self employed; depending on which country in the EU you live in, we are talking about pension plan payments, healthcare (insurance or similar which is mandatory in most EU countries in one way or another), vacation money (which is what this is about), insurance for when you (for some reason) cannot work anymore or get fired (which I don't think is in all countries, but at least here that's included), sick day money, 13th month (mandatory in some countries), bonus, social benefits, car (if needed), computer, phone, home office, travel cost (if needed), taxes, etc. I have been making 'US type' money being self employed for decades, but if you count all of the above, I don't make that much more than what a similar position does in my EU country with a regular job (comparing just the numbers, I make 2.5x more and that 2.5x is almost exactly all the above costs). Still I like it better, so I will never stop. Sure you can choose to ignore many of these factors, but then it's simply not a fair comparison.

Also, and again, i'm sure you thought about this, but for the other people reading this; in the EU in many (all?) countries, if you only have one client as a self employed person, the state could see you as an ad-hoc employee of that company, which means that that company actually has to pay for all kinds of taxes/social security (depends on the country) and if they don't, you will have to. This would 'ok', but in many countries I have worked in as freelancer or self-employed, paying these like that are far higher than if you manage it all yourself.

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#76
08-18 with small breaks is not unhealthy, if you have made sure that it doesn't slowly turn into 08 to 00 hours.

You have been working for years and you deserve a vacation. But first answer what is making you chase the money. If you already have 3 years of expenses/outgoing backup (without inflation) - you are worrying too much. It might last 2 years with expenses, any inflation and leisure trips. If you do not have 6 months of backup, evaluate your financial situation, set a target date for a vacation and take a break anyways.

Second, why do you think you could be potentially replaced by competition? Is it that easy to replace you? It may not be as easy as you think. Try hiring for at least 80% of your capacity and you will know. If it is easier to replace you then the better option is to become a company/agency, hire people and expand your agency's capacity.

Third, if you take all projects that come your way - either your rates are too cheap and you need to increase - or you are exceptionally talented. In the latter case, demand for you will not die if you take a short vacation and/or defer some work. Don't plan for a long vacation like month or two, because it turns out to be boring and less fulfilling beyond 10-14 days.

With family, you might want to try out vacations at nonseasonal times if that works with the family.

When you do not take a vacation - you and your family will end up frustrated with any amount of money you bring in via that work. You might end up hating work at some point and will end up with some stupid decision.

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#78
Don't forget you work to live, you don't live to work.

Even if you love your work, you don't love it every moment of the day.

Sure, if you're close to a breakthrough invention to cure cancer, or have to race the competition to the first patent, and this urgency is credible and has a likely and credible high-payout in the end, you can crunch for a finite amount of time. But just churning out one project after the other with no end in sight, skipping holidays, makes absolutely no sense.

I'd take a holiday as soon as you can, talk to your company, and also look beyond your company. There's plenty of us making a decent wage without working like a 18th century factory worker that is denied a Christmas holiday. Working for Chinese wages in a country with European costs also makes little sense to me. There are surely other companies available to work for.

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#79

When I ran a business, I was afraid of taking a vacation, so I kept working really hard without a break. One day I woke up and couldn't think straight. I had worked myself stupid. So instead of taking a vacation, I simply called in sick for a week and wasn't really in a position to enjoy it. So if you're anything like me, in a sense you're going to take time off regardless. What you need to drive is take a risk and h…

I had that experience when I had a 1 person company (I had a software product but it did not make enough to hire people; it did make enough for me to live comfortably); I never dared to take off. When I finally did because it was really needed, it almost destroyed the company and I decided to sell it because this was not the intention.

I decided a while ago that I wasn't going to start another business unless I knew I'd be able to take time off. That means either providing a valuable enough service that I'd have customers when I got back or that I'd have people to keep the machine running while I was away. It's hard to get to the point where you can do that!

Re: Ask HN: How do you justify taking unpaid vacation as self employed?

#80
It’s difficult. I had a job before where I could work from home and they told me it was only 40 hours a week but I really ended up working more like 70 hours. Also got calls over night and worked on holidays too. The best approach IMO would be to plan it six months or more out because it would give the customers time to know you will be take some time with plenty of notice. Then talk it up when you interact, not like a robot repeating I will be off during the week etc., rather talk about how you excited to get a chance to go visit whatever with the family.
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