What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
1–10 of 17 posts
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#2Hydrogen is a junk technology. What is the easiest place to get hydrogen? Petrol and other hydrocarbons. Extracting it from water would take more energy than using existing fossil fuel. The tech was expensive, would probably stay expensive, and was pretty bad environmentally. Hydrogen is also really difficult to transport in the amounts needed to fuel fleets of cars. It died because it sucked.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#3Hydrogen is a junk technology. What is the easiest place to get hydrogen? Petrol and other hydrocarbons. Extracting it from water would take more energy than using existing fossil fuel. The tech was expensive, would probably stay expensive, and was pretty bad environmentally. Hydrogen is also really difficult to transport in the amounts needed to fuel fleets of cars. It died because it sucked.
Electric is simpler and less risky.
For automakers, the worst problem of electric vehicles is that maintainance/service is easy and they make more money servicing vehicles that from selling... but it can be fixed: 1- renting batteries (and still charging annual service fee). 2- renting whole cars by the minute using a mobile app.
The problem with Hydrogen is that's still an _explosion_ motor with a different fuel, and you have to develop a new kind of motor for it plus a way to store and consume the hydrogen cells safely.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#4Hydrogen is very inefficient compared to using electricity (more) directly via a battery. The fueling is relatively fast, in rare locales where the stations are available, but then fueling speed for electric vehicles is not an issue if it can be done at home and at fast chargers, which are highly available in many states of the US and a rapidly growing number of countries.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#5Hydrogen is a junk technology. What is the easiest place to get hydrogen? Petrol and other hydrocarbons. Extracting it from water would take more energy than using existing fossil fuel. The tech was expensive, would probably stay expensive, and was pretty bad environmentally. Hydrogen is also really difficult to transport in the amounts needed to fuel fleets of cars. It died because it sucked.
Electric is simpler and less risky. For automakers, the worst problem of electric vehicles is that maintainance/service is easy and they make more money servicing vehicles that from selling... but it can be fixed: 1- renting batteries (and still charging annual service fee). 2- renting whole cars by the minute using a mobile app. The problem with Hydrogen is that's still an _explosion_ motor with a different fuel, an…
Fuel cell
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#6Hydrogen is a junk technology. What is the easiest place to get hydrogen? Petrol and other hydrocarbons. Extracting it from water would take more energy than using existing fossil fuel. The tech was expensive, would probably stay expensive, and was pretty bad environmentally. Hydrogen is also really difficult to transport in the amounts needed to fuel fleets of cars. It died because it sucked.
Electric is simpler and less risky. For automakers, the worst problem of electric vehicles is that maintainance/service is easy and they make more money servicing vehicles that from selling... but it can be fixed: 1- renting batteries (and still charging annual service fee). 2- renting whole cars by the minute using a mobile app. The problem with Hydrogen is that's still an _explosion_ motor with a different fuel, an…
Most of the work done during servicing of modern cars is simply inspecting and testing mechanical parts for damage. EVs still have mechanical parts (brakes, suspension and drive train) that can wear out and fail. EVs still have brake fluid, coolant and oil which needs to be checked and replaced, but not as often.
If anything, I see it will be more profitable for automakers as they will continue to charge the same service prices as they do now for less and simpler work. Plus they can make up new maintenance like Toyota have done with their 'hybrid battery health check', which is a paid optional extra, but extends the battery warranty for one year.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#7Hydrogen is very inefficient compared to using electricity (more) directly via a battery. The fueling is relatively fast, in rare locales where the stations are available, but then fueling speed for electric vehicles is not an issue if it can be done at home and at fast chargers, which are highly available in many states of the US and a rapidly growing number of countries.
Yep,and as an engineer that's hard to imagine people that don't think of the efficiency as a primary feature.
Efficiency misses the point, it's convenience: a 3 minute fill-up instead of a 60m fill-up.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#8Hydrogen is very inefficient compared to using electricity (more) directly via a battery. The fueling is relatively fast, in rare locales where the stations are available, but then fueling speed for electric vehicles is not an issue if it can be done at home and at fast chargers, which are highly available in many states of the US and a rapidly growing number of countries.
Yep,and as an engineer that's hard to imagine people that don't think of the efficiency as a primary feature. Efficiency misses the point, it's convenience: a 3 minute fill-up instead of a 60m fill-up.
Convenience is being able to use a ubiquitous existing fuel distribution infrastructure, rather than traveling to one of a tiny number of stations. If your response is “well, that won’t matter once hydrogen fueling stations become common”, then you’ve identified the problem.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#9Hydrogen is a junk technology. What is the easiest place to get hydrogen? Petrol and other hydrocarbons. Extracting it from water would take more energy than using existing fossil fuel. The tech was expensive, would probably stay expensive, and was pretty bad environmentally. Hydrogen is also really difficult to transport in the amounts needed to fuel fleets of cars. It died because it sucked.
Electric is simpler and less risky. For automakers, the worst problem of electric vehicles is that maintainance/service is easy and they make more money servicing vehicles that from selling... but it can be fixed: 1- renting batteries (and still charging annual service fee). 2- renting whole cars by the minute using a mobile app. The problem with Hydrogen is that's still an _explosion_ motor with a different fuel, an…
Yep. Many people know that Hydrogen and Hindenburg start with the same letter.
There are no hydrogen wells. So you'd have to use a lot of energy to make hydrogen fuel in the needed quantities. And then (because it's such a light gas) highly-pressurized containers (collision-survivable) are needed.
Instead, use that energy more directly.
Re: What 2020 Would Look Like If Automakers Had Seriously Invested in Hydrogen
#10Hydrogen is very inefficient compared to using electricity (more) directly via a battery. The fueling is relatively fast, in rare locales where the stations are available, but then fueling speed for electric vehicles is not an issue if it can be done at home and at fast chargers, which are highly available in many states of the US and a rapidly growing number of countries.
But fast chargers aren't particularly fast. If I'm going on a road trip aiming for 800-1000 miles in a day (we do that 1-2x/year visiting family), we'd have to recharge 2-4 times (depending on availability of chargers). Waiting 30min-1hr is a pain, especially when it's more than once per day. We also need to plan our stops based on availability of chargers instead of stopping when we feel like we need a rest.
Electric is fantastic for around town driving, but it just seems so inconvenient for distance travel.